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But isn’t that the same when people and schools create effing Facebook groups and events or whatever they are called and find it hard to believe that people don
by yumraj 2y ago
But isn’t that the same when people and schools create effing Facebook groups and events or whatever they are called and find it hard to believe that people don’t use that crap. Or create WhatsApp groups and communities and so on and on.
- chippiewill 2y agoYes, but at least those don't have hardware lock-in.
- malloci 2y agoFrom the article, however, you don't technically need an apple device...an iCloud+ account is sufficient. That said, I don't know many people with iCloud+ who aren't already in the Apple ecosystem, and obviously anything Apple releases will obviously have some advantage to it if you use the hardware alone.
- Hackbraten 2y agoWhatsApp absolutely has hardware lock-in. You need to be an Apple or Google customer to use it, and you need at least one Android or iOS phone.
- lallysingh 2y agoThey have a desktop version of WhatsApp.
- pedalpete 2y agoAs far as I know, the desktop requires you to sign-in via QR code from a mobile phone that you're logged into whatsapp on.
- Evil_Saint 2y agoWow. I assumed you could use Whatsapp on the web but you literally can't. You have to have an Android or Iphone. I guess maybe there's a way to fake it with emulators on your computer but that's a lot of work that you shouldn't need to have to do.
- manmal 2y agoAn Android emulator with Play Services should work in theory, but I haven’t tried it. They could have extra checks to prevent that.
- paper2d 2y agoYou can install whatsapp on degoogled phones as well! No need of play services.
- notpushkin 2y agoThis. I think there’s also an unofficial Python library, so you can write a simple script that keeps your account active (and use the web client).
- fsflover 2y ago> degoogled phones It's still Android. How do I do it on a GNU/Linux phone?
- teddyh 2y agoWaydroid.
- CountHackulus 2y agoYou can use Whatsapp on the web, but you can't create an account on the web.
- Evil_Saint 2y agoWorse they require frequent logins on device to keep the with client working. Just making the account on device isn't enough. You have to maintain it as well.
- brailsafe 2y agoWell, it is tied to your phone number, idk if hardware lock in and vendor lock in are in the same camp exactly
- chem83 2y agoYou said it yourself -- customers have options. Also, you forgot KaiOS.
- fabrice_d 2y agoUnfortunately WhatsApp stopped supporting KaiOS.
- bolognafairy 2y agoYeah, well, you need a computer to go on the internet! Where’s the freedom there!? /s
- Hackbraten 2y agoYour comment is missing the point. Even if you do have a smartphone, you might be running some flavor of Linux on it. Or maybe Google terminated your account due to some false positive.
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- cortesoft 2y agoI use WhatsApp on my desktop
- Biganon 2y agoThe desktop version requires you to connect with your phone. It's just a proxy to your phone.
- sfRattan 2y agoIs it possible to install WhatsApp on one of the three major 3rd-party AOSP-based operating systems (distros): Graphene OS, Calyx OS, or Lineage OS? Each one has varying models for replacing functionality of the Google Play Services, and IIRC the Aurora store [1] allows for installation of apps from Google Play without a Google account. It's not a combination of steps that would be accessible to the average user, but I think it should be possible to use WhatsApp without being an Apple or Google customer (nominally a customer of Google hardware---Pixel phones---if using Graphene or Calyx, and ultimately a customer of Meta/Facebook for WhatsApp itself). [1]: https://aurorastore.org/ https://aurorastore.org/
- notpushkin 2y agoIt is. Works great without Google services (maybe pushes don’t work though, I can’t remember), or with microG. > It's not a combination of steps that would be accessible to the average user Tangential, but I’m thinking about starting a degoogled phone shop. Not sure if it’s a good business idea, but I think there is at least some demand there. EDIT: aurorastore[.]org you link to is not the official site by the way. I’d not trust the APKs you get there. The official is https://auroraoss.com/ https://auroraoss.com/ (and the downloads on F-Droid should be legit, too).
- pbmonster 2y ago> Tangential, but I’m thinking about starting a degoogled phone shop. Not sure if it’s a good business idea, but I think there is at least some demand there. Sounds like an incredible amount of pain for very little gain. * Even in my bubble (CS nerds, Linux only, FOSS developers, ect.), only around 20% run custom ROMs on their phones. The demand is tiny. * Even the very best UX ROMs (GrapheneOS on a modern Pixel, with full Google Services re-installed in a sandbox) will drive normies crazy. Google Lens and Android Auto are non-trivial to get running. Google Pay/Wallet is straight up impossible. And again, this is on a re-googled de-googled phone. Can't imagine how bad it's with a truely de-googled phone. * If you go back into the walled garden defeated, you lose almost everything you did outside it. The few things you don't lose, you will have to work hard for. The few customers you would get would create a high number of support requests, and be very unhappy with whatever you could do for them. Everybody not needing your support already runs LinageOS/GrapheneOS successfully on their own.
- jwr 2y agoWhat's worse, and what people gloss over, is that you have to sync your contacts to Facebook/Meta in order to use WhatsApp. That's a lot of very private information that tells them a lot about you. There is a reason why Facebook paid bajillions for WhatsApp and maintains it, even though the communication is encrypted and there are no ads — it's not out of the goodness of their noble hearts. But try telling this to anyone and watch their eyes glaze over in a matter of seconds.
- AlexandrB 2y agoYou don't have to. At least on iOS I've managed to get away without doing it until now. WhatsApp does make it inconvenient to do stuff without syncing contacts though.
- cowsandmilk 2y agoNo one other than the organizer needs anything Apple.
- Retric 2y agoYou only need an iCloud+ account not an Apple device. Thus there’s zero hardware lock-in, an Android user could send invites. Though obviously iCloud is more appealing if you’re part of there ecosystem, you can just use it for file storage etc.
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- whimsicalism 2y agosorry all of those things are way more acceptable than what apple does imo
- bossyTeacher 2y agoIt's the same. They are all walled gardens (whether hardware walled gardens or software walled gardens)
- lordofgibbons 2y agoAs much I deeply dislike Meta, it's not the same. I can simply open the Play store install facebook or Instagram. For the Apple walled garden, I need to spend $800+ USD
- addandsubtract 2y agoYou don't even need an app for Facebook or Instagram.
- sbuk 2y agoYou don't even need an app for Invites.
- mmcclure 2y agoIt feels like everyone's talking past each other in a big way on this thread. You don't need an Apple Device to participate in one of these events. At most you might need an iCloud account, which, (imo) is pretty much the same as Meta and crew. Unrelated to that point, as other posters have called out, folks pretty consistently overstate the cost of Apple hardware relative to peers. You can spend $800 on a new iPhone 16, the latest release, or half that on an iPhone SE. Both of these options are available right now on Apple.com. This feels like saying you'd need to spend $1000+ on an Android because that's how much the newest Pixel costs.
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- lmm 2y agoFacebook you can access through any browser, on any hardware, and without having to pay for it. Not remotely comparable to Apple-only stuff. $1000 or whatever an iPhone costs these days is a lot of money for some people.
- JimDabell 2y ago> $1000 or whatever an iPhone costs these days Why do people always make up iPhone prices when the truth is readily available? You can buy a brand-new, unsubsidised iPhone for less than half that, and that’s not counting second-hand devices or phones on a contract, which are both incredibly common ways of getting a phone.
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- bigiain 2y ago<rant> or when you look for a FOSS project's documentation and it just says "Join our Discord!". Grrrrr. Nope.
- e-clinton 2y agoHard to believe? Where have you been? What other platform has billions of users that everyone should use instead?