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Having a young optimistic uncynical person, untainted by years of painful lessons and bitterness, attempt to fix these systems with raw speed and brute urgency,

Having a young optimistic uncynical person, untainted by years of painful lessons and bitterness, attempt to fix these systems with raw speed and brute urgency, might be the exact shock a system like the public sector needs. People complain about Facebook's move fast and break things philosophy whenever something bad happens, completely ignoring the fact that they are a trillion dollar corporation that 20 years ago did not exist. Sometime you just have to get rid of the guardrails and YOLO it

redcobra762 2y ago
...not when the consequences are "people die of starvation because their EBT didn't go through." Moving fast and breaking things only works when the things you're breaking are low stakes. Grandma not getting her daily pic dump of her grandson is not the same as grandma not getting her groceries.
- uLogMicheal 2y ago
  People tend to forget that move fast and break things also includes move fast and fix things. No one will starve from this.
  - UncleMeat 2y ago
    How much are you willing to bet on this? Will you be willing to pay into a fund to mitigate suffering caused by this nonsense?
- michaeljx 2y ago
  Well,it didn't say anywhere that they are stopping grandma's checks. And if the system is so fragile that grandma will die before getting some human person to resolve her case, then we've got bigger problems than a 25 year old having r/w on the system.
  - yummybear 2y ago
    That's a rather cynical take on what may amount to actual human suffering.
    - uLogMicheal 2y ago
      The alarmist take is jumping to the conclusion that people will starve from efforts to improve the code behind this system. We can still print paper checks, probably with a simple script in the worst case.
      - redcobra762 2y ago
        Concern over even a low possibility of a catastrophic event is hardly alarmist. And what if your assumption about printing checks is wrong? I find no basis for that assumption, by the way.
        uLogMicheal 2y ago
        We're talking about payment system code, not AI targeting for drones. Changes can be reverted, transactions can be stopped, payments can be made other ways.
        redcobra762 2y ago
        No they cannot, not legally, and certainly not in a timely manner. There are simply no mechanisms in place to do what you're saying, nor does there appear to be any willingness to correct errors, given the desire to cut spending. Missed payments may be a feature, not a bug.
        uLogMicheal 2y ago
        > nor does there appear to be any willingness to correct errors > Missed payments may be a feature, not a bug. > not legally, and certainly not in a timely manner. Bad faith magic wand waving, these arguments do not have substance. People/bots are on a bandwagon against change many have been calling for years for. Our treasury system NEEDS an overhaul and there are much bigger problems with this admin to make an issue out of.
- djmips 2y ago
  People are going to die of starvation from this administration.
thejazzman 2y ago
so to be clear, you think world governments should be YOLOing it? and you justify this because a platform for serving targeted ads has popularized the idea? and you don't see a difference between a social network and our countries payment systems? i'm just kind of shocked and disappointed by this, as i'm sure you're not the only one who perceives the world this way..
- michaeljx 2y ago
  I am saying that a government,and any other system, operating in an environment of abundance without external pressures to improve, ends up accumulating year's of cruft, inneficiencies, unproductive bureaucracies and 4-eye principles everywhere . Sometimes a system needs a good shock to improve. And at the end of the day, what is the absolute worst that can happen? Cause the upside of this working is definitely worth the risk in my eyes.
  - patchymcnoodles 2y ago
    What is the absolute worst that can happen? People not getting their money is nothing bad for you?
  - nickthegreek 2y ago
    > the upside of this working is definitely worth any risk in my eyes. then your eyes aren't open. a moment of thought would easily produce outcomes that dont match the risk.
  - philk10 2y ago
    millions die, wars and famine? why isn't DOGE in the DoD accounting their systems?
  - cozzyd 2y ago
    If you approve of this, perhaps Marko Elez can find some efficiencies within the payroll system of your employer?
  - sundaeofshock 2y ago
4ndrewl 2y ago
[flagged]
johnpdoe123 2y ago
Respectfully, this is such a Valley attitude that one would be hard pressed to find anywhere else. The fact that this approach "works" on software and tech in general, does not make it a philosophy to live by IMHO. And I quote "works" because it doesn't always work, and even when it does, it produces a subpar experience for the end user, that sometimes the user has no option (or escape energy) but to withstand. This might work when the thing you are constantly breaking is optional for me to use. I will keep using as long as the value it gives me outweighs the breakage pain. If you break it enough times, I might just get fed up with it and not use it anymore, or go with a competitor. It is a risk that YOU are taking with your product, that sometimes will work and sometimes will not. In the case of the government social apparatus being handled by techie kids in crunch time, THEY are not the ones taking the risk, but the population that depends on those systems. There is a reason why those systems are analysed ad infinitum before replacing them or changing them. And yes, they evolve slower than modern tech systems, but most of the time there is good reason for it. They might be ok with a release in production with a couple of bugs and come back on Monday and say -oops- on your morning standup. This is something that should not be acceptable when we are talking about services that millions of people's livelihoods depend on. They can YOLO it all they want, in their private endeavour, with their (optional to me) product. They do NOT get to YOLO it with my life's critical things.
UncleMeat 2y ago
"Move fast and break things" may work well when you are making an entertaining website and selling ads. It works vastly less well when "break things" means people depending on the government for medical coverage die. There's a reason why the people constructing bridges and nuclear power plants don't "move fast and break things" even if the people building a fundamentally unimportant website can do that.

redcobra762 2y ago

...not when the consequences are "people die of starvation because their EBT didn't go through." Moving fast and breaking things only works when the things you're breaking are low stakes. Grandma not getting her daily pic dump of her grandson is not the same as grandma not getting her groceries.

uLogMicheal 2y ago
People tend to forget that move fast and break things also includes move fast and fix things. No one will starve from this.
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  How much are you willing to bet on this? Will you be willing to pay into a fund to mitigate suffering caused by this nonsense?
michaeljx 2y ago
Well,it didn't say anywhere that they are stopping grandma's checks. And if the system is so fragile that grandma will die before getting some human person to resolve her case, then we've got bigger problems than a 25 year old having r/w on the system.
- yummybear 2y ago
  That's a rather cynical take on what may amount to actual human suffering.
  - uLogMicheal 2y ago
    The alarmist take is jumping to the conclusion that people will starve from efforts to improve the code behind this system. We can still print paper checks, probably with a simple script in the worst case.
    - redcobra762 2y ago
      Concern over even a low possibility of a catastrophic event is hardly alarmist. And what if your assumption about printing checks is wrong? I find no basis for that assumption, by the way.
      - uLogMicheal 2y ago
        We're talking about payment system code, not AI targeting for drones. Changes can be reverted, transactions can be stopped, payments can be made other ways.
        redcobra762 2y ago
        No they cannot, not legally, and certainly not in a timely manner. There are simply no mechanisms in place to do what you're saying, nor does there appear to be any willingness to correct errors, given the desire to cut spending. Missed payments may be a feature, not a bug.
        uLogMicheal 2y ago
        > nor does there appear to be any willingness to correct errors > Missed payments may be a feature, not a bug. > not legally, and certainly not in a timely manner. Bad faith magic wand waving, these arguments do not have substance. People/bots are on a bandwagon against change many have been calling for years for. Our treasury system NEEDS an overhaul and there are much bigger problems with this admin to make an issue out of.
djmips 2y ago
People are going to die of starvation from this administration.

thejazzman 2y ago

so to be clear, you think world governments should be YOLOing it? and you justify this because a platform for serving targeted ads has popularized the idea? and you don't see a difference between a social network and our countries payment systems? i'm just kind of shocked and disappointed by this, as i'm sure you're not the only one who perceives the world this way..

michaeljx 2y ago
I am saying that a government,and any other system, operating in an environment of abundance without external pressures to improve, ends up accumulating year's of cruft, inneficiencies, unproductive bureaucracies and 4-eye principles everywhere . Sometimes a system needs a good shock to improve. And at the end of the day, what is the absolute worst that can happen? Cause the upside of this working is definitely worth the risk in my eyes.
- patchymcnoodles 2y ago
  What is the absolute worst that can happen? People not getting their money is nothing bad for you?
- nickthegreek 2y ago
  > the upside of this working is definitely worth any risk in my eyes. then your eyes aren't open. a moment of thought would easily produce outcomes that dont match the risk.
- philk10 2y ago
  millions die, wars and famine? why isn't DOGE in the DoD accounting their systems?
- cozzyd 2y ago
  If you approve of this, perhaps Marko Elez can find some efficiencies within the payroll system of your employer?
- sundaeofshock 2y ago

4ndrewl 2y ago

[flagged]

johnpdoe123 2y ago

Respectfully, this is such a Valley attitude that one would be hard pressed to find anywhere else. The fact that this approach "works" on software and tech in general, does not make it a philosophy to live by IMHO. And I quote "works" because it doesn't always work, and even when it does, it produces a subpar experience for the end user, that sometimes the user has no option (or escape energy) but to withstand. This might work when the thing you are constantly breaking is optional for me to use. I will keep using as long as the value it gives me outweighs the breakage pain. If you break it enough times, I might just get fed up with it and not use it anymore, or go with a competitor. It is a risk that YOU are taking with your product, that sometimes will work and sometimes will not. In the case of the government social apparatus being handled by techie kids in crunch time, THEY are not the ones taking the risk, but the population that depends on those systems. There is a reason why those systems are analysed ad infinitum before replacing them or changing them. And yes, they evolve slower than modern tech systems, but most of the time there is good reason for it. They might be ok with a release in production with a couple of bugs and come back on Monday and say -oops- on your morning standup. This is something that should not be acceptable when we are talking about services that millions of people's livelihoods depend on. They can YOLO it all they want, in their private endeavour, with their (optional to me) product. They do NOT get to YOLO it with my life's critical things.

UncleMeat 2y ago

"Move fast and break things" may work well when you are making an entertaining website and selling ads. It works vastly less well when "break things" means people depending on the government for medical coverage die. There's a reason why the people constructing bridges and nuclear power plants don't "move fast and break things" even if the people building a fundamentally unimportant website can do that.