4 ms·

I think it's less about "25-year-old" and more about unvetted stranger with no clearance given unfettered read-write access to the money of a country apparently

I think it's less about "25-year-old" and more about unvetted stranger with no clearance given unfettered read-write access to the money of a country apparently not run by a dictator, but elected officials(none of which were involved).

xster 2y ago
Not commenting on this particular case, but on the general sentiment. Aristotle did say in Politics IV that appointing public office by lottery, drawing from the real public, is more democratic (power to the people) than elections, which is an oligarchic exercise.
- ActionHank 2y ago
  Makes sense. I've always held the opinion that elected officials should have to use public health care, send their kids to public schools, and use public transport. This would ensure that they would have to maintain these institutions and be able to face their constituents on the daily.
  - psadauskas 2y ago
    > A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation. -- Gustavo Petro
    - gsf_emergency 2y ago
      Manhattan :)
- 3hoss 2y ago
  how, exactly, is that relevant here?
  - ActionHank 2y ago
    Because the US democratically elected a would-be dictator who is now building out his oligarchy.
    - nico 2y ago
      > building out More like consolidating and cementing. It had already been built out
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  "real public" at the time excluded women, slaves, and expats. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy
  - Insanity 2y ago
    Sure but those need to be understood within context. Obviously OP is not saying it was unilaterally better and the idea being commented on is just public lottery vs election. You can lift out that idea and apply our current understanding of “public” and the point of OP still stands.
    - readthenotes1 2y ago
      I don't think it does. The voting pool back then would be the modern equivalent of free landowners with citizens parents, and excluding some felons (not gonna investigate which crimes carried the death/exile penalty in Athens).
      - kekpopzed 2y ago
        You dismissed the criticism of your argument without comment and then repeated yourself. Thats very disingenuous and a sign of a weak argument.
        readthenotes1 2y ago
        I thought perhaps hen hadn't quite digested what it would mean for only a small class of elites to be in the pool that gets picked from. By excluding over 3/4 of the population, we would hardly get what we think of as democracy. With those exclusions, the power of being a citizen would increase dramatically and the lottery would make it unlikely bands of eligible citizens would unite to expand the electorate but instead would seek to make membership more stringent, like DPRK's haeksim. Choice by lottery would also fail to exclude men who have no desire or capacity to do whatever job it is they pulled. I do not know what they did in ancient Greece but in modern times that would lead to a bureaucratic class with the leader being only a figurehead at their mercy--and at times that would be very good. But the bureaucrats class would not be the voice of the people, would not be democratic. I felt this was obvious from the exclusions and so didn't see the need to elaborate.
briffle 2y ago
How is this possible with any auditing/compliance framework in place? Any basic framework that I have been part of, the developers can't have access to production, and we have to show rigorous testing processes are passed before we update production.
- ActionHank 2y ago
  Because they are being guided by the rigor of trust me bro.
  - RGamma 2y ago
    "I know how to code, therefore I know everything."
    - 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
      More like, "Therefore, I know nothing because instead of learning about life through experience I have wasted years playing with a computer instead."
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  > How is this possible with any auditing/compliance framework in place? It is not, what happened is someone said “I have authority from the President which trumps your ‘frameworks’ and ‘processes’, and if you fight me on this you will be fired and then we’ll bring in your replacement with the same deal and repeat as necessary until there is compliance with our demands”.
  - disqard 2y ago
    Yes, it is not "turtles all the way down" (or code/processes/law). The "base layer" has always been "men with guns". If you fail to cooperate, an armed security guard will take your badge and escort you to the build exit. If that security guard does not cooperate, another man with a gun can always be found.

xster 2y ago

Not commenting on this particular case, but on the general sentiment. Aristotle did say in Politics IV that appointing public office by lottery, drawing from the real public, is more democratic (power to the people) than elections, which is an oligarchic exercise.

ActionHank 2y ago
Makes sense. I've always held the opinion that elected officials should have to use public health care, send their kids to public schools, and use public transport. This would ensure that they would have to maintain these institutions and be able to face their constituents on the daily.
- psadauskas 2y ago
  > A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation. -- Gustavo Petro
  - gsf_emergency 2y ago
    Manhattan :)
3hoss 2y ago
how, exactly, is that relevant here?
- ActionHank 2y ago
  Because the US democratically elected a would-be dictator who is now building out his oligarchy.
  - nico 2y ago
    > building out More like consolidating and cementing. It had already been built out
readthenotes1 2y ago
"real public" at the time excluded women, slaves, and expats. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy
- Insanity 2y ago
  Sure but those need to be understood within context. Obviously OP is not saying it was unilaterally better and the idea being commented on is just public lottery vs election. You can lift out that idea and apply our current understanding of “public” and the point of OP still stands.
  - readthenotes1 2y ago
    I don't think it does. The voting pool back then would be the modern equivalent of free landowners with citizens parents, and excluding some felons (not gonna investigate which crimes carried the death/exile penalty in Athens).
    - kekpopzed 2y ago
      You dismissed the criticism of your argument without comment and then repeated yourself. Thats very disingenuous and a sign of a weak argument.
      - readthenotes1 2y ago
        I thought perhaps hen hadn't quite digested what it would mean for only a small class of elites to be in the pool that gets picked from. By excluding over 3/4 of the population, we would hardly get what we think of as democracy. With those exclusions, the power of being a citizen would increase dramatically and the lottery would make it unlikely bands of eligible citizens would unite to expand the electorate but instead would seek to make membership more stringent, like DPRK's haeksim. Choice by lottery would also fail to exclude men who have no desire or capacity to do whatever job it is they pulled. I do not know what they did in ancient Greece but in modern times that would lead to a bureaucratic class with the leader being only a figurehead at their mercy--and at times that would be very good. But the bureaucrats class would not be the voice of the people, would not be democratic. I felt this was obvious from the exclusions and so didn't see the need to elaborate.

briffle 2y ago

How is this possible with any auditing/compliance framework in place? Any basic framework that I have been part of, the developers can't have access to production, and we have to show rigorous testing processes are passed before we update production.

ActionHank 2y ago
Because they are being guided by the rigor of trust me bro.
- RGamma 2y ago
  "I know how to code, therefore I know everything."
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
    More like, "Therefore, I know nothing because instead of learning about life through experience I have wasted years playing with a computer instead."
dragonwriter 2y ago
> How is this possible with any auditing/compliance framework in place? It is not, what happened is someone said “I have authority from the President which trumps your ‘frameworks’ and ‘processes’, and if you fight me on this you will be fired and then we’ll bring in your replacement with the same deal and repeat as necessary until there is compliance with our demands”.
- disqard 2y ago
  Yes, it is not "turtles all the way down" (or code/processes/law). The "base layer" has always been "men with guns". If you fail to cooperate, an armed security guard will take your badge and escort you to the build exit. If that security guard does not cooperate, another man with a gun can always be found.