5 ms·

Oh, you learn something new every day. Gracias

by normalaccess 2y ago

nessbot 2y ago
[flagged]
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  OP did acknowledge and edit their comment to correct the misinfo. Sometimes we might want to more gently support that, as it is in itself rare. The advice to confirm belief before commenting is valid, the tone is overly harsh.
  - nessbot 2y ago
    How would you change the tone? I feel like that was a plain and matter-of-fact sentence. I get the term "misinformation" is feels loaded but it wasn't unfair to say. edit and the fact that the poster did have the good sense to add an edit was part of the reason I decided to say something because telling someone who didn't would just be a waste of time
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      "Confirming your beliefs prior to posting would be useful here." That edits the swipe of "spreading misinformation", which whilst accurate is charged and puts the reader on the defensive, as well as the more egregious "you know what you are talking about" which is nakedly aggressive. HN discussion is highly sensitive to nuances of tone, a point dang makes frequently: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7905762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7905762>, <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23047709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23047709> and <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17689715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17689715> especially. (That last isn't too significant for a well-down-thread comment such as yours, but still plays a strong role, especially in politically-tinged discussion, and especially in the present environment.) (I make a point of confirming information I provide in comments, largely through inline links or footnotes. Of which I am ... inordinately ... fond: <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20%22notes%3A%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...>. I've more than once changed my comment significantly on discovering my initial beliefs were false.)
      - nessbot 2y ago
        Agree that there are ways to say it nicer, but I still contend that what I said was not aggressive. The poster started with "Correct!" and they didn't understand the thing they said was "correct." I think it's fair to point out that they inappropriately made statements about something they didn't know. They even admitted to learning it afterwards. Its fair criticism and if folks wanna be making claims online they should be able to handle it.
        dredmorbius 2y ago
        If you read dang's admonitions (as I have, for many years) you'll find that his viewpoint and official HN policy is that tone matters immensely, and is often read as diminished / positive by authors and amplified / negatively by recipients. Searching for "personal attacks" and "swipes" will turn up many such examples: "personal attacks": <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20personal%20attacks&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...> "swipes": <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20swipes&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...>
        nessbot 2y ago
        I hear you. But like I said, I didn't make a personal attack or swipe. I pointed out that the person shouldn't confidently make claims for things they don't know lest they spread misinformation. It was a fair comment.
        dredmorbius 2y ago
        Again, my initial comment here (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42939581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42939581>), and go through some of dang's many comments for where he draws the line. (I'm not dang, I'm not a mod, just something of a student of how HN (dys)functions over the years. Which is generally far above the online norm, not that the bar isn't low.)
lesuorac 2y ago
Keep in mind, the current administration sees the Impoundment Control Act as unconstitutional so you might unlearn something another day. https://www.npr.org/2025/02/02/nx-s1-5281438/understanding-the-law-at-the-heart-of-confusion-over-trumps-federal-funding-freeze https://www.npr.org/2025/02/02/nx-s1-5281438/understanding-t...
johnnyanmac 2y ago
Indeed. This law was challenged many, many times in history. Even as recent as Clinton. Congress put it down everytime.

Oh, you learn something new every day. Gracias

nessbot 2y ago

[flagged]

dredmorbius 2y ago
OP did acknowledge and edit their comment to correct the misinfo. Sometimes we might want to more gently support that, as it is in itself rare. The advice to confirm belief before commenting is valid, the tone is overly harsh.
- nessbot 2y ago
  How would you change the tone? I feel like that was a plain and matter-of-fact sentence. I get the term "misinformation" is feels loaded but it wasn't unfair to say. edit and the fact that the poster did have the good sense to add an edit was part of the reason I decided to say something because telling someone who didn't would just be a waste of time
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    "Confirming your beliefs prior to posting would be useful here." That edits the swipe of "spreading misinformation", which whilst accurate is charged and puts the reader on the defensive, as well as the more egregious "you know what you are talking about" which is nakedly aggressive. HN discussion is highly sensitive to nuances of tone, a point dang makes frequently: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7905762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7905762>, <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23047709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23047709> and <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17689715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17689715> especially. (That last isn't too significant for a well-down-thread comment such as yours, but still plays a strong role, especially in politically-tinged discussion, and especially in the present environment.) (I make a point of confirming information I provide in comments, largely through inline links or footnotes. Of which I am ... inordinately ... fond: <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20%22notes%3A%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...>. I've more than once changed my comment significantly on discovering my initial beliefs were false.)
    - nessbot 2y ago
      Agree that there are ways to say it nicer, but I still contend that what I said was not aggressive. The poster started with "Correct!" and they didn't understand the thing they said was "correct." I think it's fair to point out that they inappropriately made statements about something they didn't know. They even admitted to learning it afterwards. Its fair criticism and if folks wanna be making claims online they should be able to handle it.
      - dredmorbius 2y ago
        If you read dang's admonitions (as I have, for many years) you'll find that his viewpoint and official HN policy is that tone matters immensely, and is often read as diminished / positive by authors and amplified / negatively by recipients. Searching for "personal attacks" and "swipes" will turn up many such examples: "personal attacks": <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20personal%20attacks&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...> "swipes": <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20swipes&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...>
        nessbot 2y ago
        I hear you. But like I said, I didn't make a personal attack or swipe. I pointed out that the person shouldn't confidently make claims for things they don't know lest they spread misinformation. It was a fair comment.
        dredmorbius 2y ago
        Again, my initial comment here (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42939581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42939581>), and go through some of dang's many comments for where he draws the line. (I'm not dang, I'm not a mod, just something of a student of how HN (dys)functions over the years. Which is generally far above the online norm, not that the bar isn't low.)

lesuorac 2y ago

Keep in mind, the current administration sees the Impoundment Control Act as unconstitutional so you might unlearn something another day. https://www.npr.org/2025/02/02/nx-s1-5281438/understanding-the-law-at-the-heart-of-confusion-over-trumps-federal-funding-freeze https://www.npr.org/2025/02/02/nx-s1-5281438/understanding-t...

johnnyanmac 2y ago

Indeed. This law was challenged many, many times in history. Even as recent as Clinton. Congress put it down everytime.