5 ms·

I don't understand this sentiment. If you don't like Metro, launch the desktop and forget it even exists. For rarely launched apps, hit the Win key and start ty

I don't understand this sentiment. If you don't like Metro, launch the desktop and forget it even exists. For rarely launched apps, hit the Win key and start typing the name and for frequently used apps, pin to your taskbar. Steam still works exactly the same on Windows 8.

summerdown2 14y ago
Am I the only one who likes having a gorgeous desktop wallpaper, with icons arranged in clusters according to usability? Or to have overlapping windows? Everything I've heard about Metro suggests limited customisation of the desktop and apps that insist on being full-screen or some guaranteed fraction. All of this feels like evolution in reverse to me. I've never used Windows 8, but the stories coming out make me never want to. http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux...
- Zr40 14y ago
  Nothing is forcing you to use Metro. In fact, only apps that have an UI designed specifically for Metro will use the Metro environment. Everything else will run in windows outside of Metro, just like they do in Windows 7. Only the new start screen (which replaces the start menu) will expose you to Metro. But in my experience with the Release Preview, this start screen is pleasant to use and still allows for keyboard search like in Windows 7 as well as keyboard navigation. You can still use your desktop in precisely the same way you're doing right now. Nothing has changed there.
  - learc83 14y ago
    >Nothing is forcing you to use Metro. In fact, only apps that have an UI designed specifically for Metro will use the Metro environment. What happens when the majority of apps you want to use are Metro apps?
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
      That's not the case. Like, it's not like they're removing desktop apps and reinstating them as Metro apps. If you decide to exclusively use Metro apps, then I guess that's your problem. Otherwise, I don't really understand what point you're trying to make. I seriously, seriously question in half of the people attempting to spread shit about Windows 8 here have ever seriously used it for more than 3 minutes in a VM.
      - learc83 14y ago
        Only Metro apps work on Windows RT. Developers want the largest audience possible, so it makes sense that most of them will eventually want to target Windows RT, which is clearly what Microsoft is going for. It's going to get harder and harder to avoid metro apps.
  - zanny 14y ago
    Nobody is forcing anyone to use Windows 8 either. And a significant portion of people are taking the opportunity not to.
- correctifier 14y ago
  It is unfortunate that this kind of information has been spread so widely about Windows 8, but it's just not true. The desktop is still there, icons are still there, overlapping windows are still there, the only thing gone is the start menu, replaced with the metro launch screen that can launch both desktop and metro apps. There are still some issues with the two different environments, especially the difference in look and feel, but it still works well.
  - commandar 14y ago
    >It is unfortunate that this kind of information has been spread so widely about Windows 8, but it's just not true. Well, it is and it isn't. Native Metro apps do more or less behave the way he's describing. The thing is, almost no native Metro apps exist right now, so you'll spend the vast majority of your time in traditional desktop mode anyway.
huggyface 14y ago
I'm not sure of his reasoning, but he is not saying that Windows 8 is a catastrophe for users directly. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we'll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. Sounds more like all it is a problem for all of the many players in the Windows space. Now of course Microsoft can do what they want with their ball (subject to DOJ purview), but so can everyone else, including companies like Valve who have been a major influence in keeping the PC relevant for an entire market. If Steam and 2,500 games were available on Linux, that would make a huge case for that platform in the home.
- learc83 14y ago
  What would cause OEMs to leave the market, other than mass migration by users because of a bad user experience?
  - fooey 14y ago
    Win8 is targeting touch, which means it's targeting tablets. It's nearly impossible for a Win8 tablet to compete when it has licensing overhead that Apple and Android devices don't have.
- zanny 14y ago
  They won't be able to just jump 2,500 DirectX and DirectSound titles off the Windows API onto Wine. Maybe if they spend a few million dollars working on bringing Wine up to date with DX11, and then they have to deal with all the development houses not switching off Visual Studio and DX12 in the coming years, because they won't want to make the jump off the M$ platform.
  - CrazedGeek 14y ago
    There's already a pretty good amount of Steam games that have native Linux versions[1], at least one developer has already announced a port of an existing game to Linux through Steam[2], and the company that handles a lot of Mac "ports" (via a Wine-like layer) has a Linux version of said layer pretty much ready to go[3]. It's not gonna be a wasteland by any measure. [1] http://steamlinux.flibitijibibo.com/index.php?title=Native_Games http://steamlinux.flibitijibibo.com/index.php?title=Native_G... [2] http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/25/serious-sam-3-bfe-runs-screaming-to-linux-via-steam/ http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/25/serious-sam-3-bfe-runs-scr... [3] TransGaming makes Cider: http://transgaming.com/cider http://transgaming.com/cider and Cedega/GameTree Linux: http://gametreelinux.com/ http://gametreelinux.com/
commandar 14y ago
>If you don't like Metro, launch the desktop and forget it even exists. Been using W8 on my desktop at work for about a month now. If only it were that easy. The big problem is that W8 is insanely inconsistent. Trying to change system settings can result in having to navigate a byzantine maze guiding you through new Metro interfaces with old-school control panel applets interspersed throughout. The Control Panel still exists, but there's also a Metro PC settings interface, and trying to search will give you some mix of the two. It's just a nightmare to navigate. It's more that the entire user experience sucks than it has anything to do with any single application.
- EvanAnderson 14y ago
  I haven't looked at the release previews yet but I can only imagine. The antique-looking Windows 3.1 font control panel persisted into Windows 2000, so I can't believe that we'll be rid of the trappings of more recent versions of Windows anytime soon.
- ch0wn 14y ago
  I got the same impression so far. Take the Metro Windows Update for example. It failed for for me repeatedly without giving any reason until I found the same functionality within the "classic" Control Center where I had to allow the system to reboot in order to install the updates. This is simply a horrible experience in every way.
  - b0 14y ago
    I whinged about this to our partner rep who made some calls - apparently they fixed it for RTM. Whether or not that is bullshit or not, I don't know.
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    >It failed for for me repeatedly without giving any reason until I found the same functionality within the "classic" Control Center where I had to allow the system to reboot in order to install the updates Wasn't this on the Beta product? Why is everyone talking as if it's on the RTM version?
CamperBob2 14y ago
For rarely launched apps, hit the Win key and start typing the name There should be an app for that. It could be called... oh, I don't know, how about COMMAND.COM?
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  What are you talking about? This is how every person I've ever observed ever uses the Start Menu in Windows Vista or 7.
- archangel_one 14y ago
  Not many application executables in Windows are in your PATH, so cmd is not going to find them. Even for the ones that are, you have to type the name of the .exe which is not necessarily obvious; eg. Visual Studio -> devenv.exe.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    It was a joke, son

summerdown2 14y ago

Am I the only one who likes having a gorgeous desktop wallpaper, with icons arranged in clusters according to usability? Or to have overlapping windows? Everything I've heard about Metro suggests limited customisation of the desktop and apps that insist on being full-screen or some guaranteed fraction. All of this feels like evolution in reverse to me. I've never used Windows 8, but the stories coming out make me never want to. http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux...

Zr40 14y ago
Nothing is forcing you to use Metro. In fact, only apps that have an UI designed specifically for Metro will use the Metro environment. Everything else will run in windows outside of Metro, just like they do in Windows 7. Only the new start screen (which replaces the start menu) will expose you to Metro. But in my experience with the Release Preview, this start screen is pleasant to use and still allows for keyboard search like in Windows 7 as well as keyboard navigation. You can still use your desktop in precisely the same way you're doing right now. Nothing has changed there.
- learc83 14y ago
  >Nothing is forcing you to use Metro. In fact, only apps that have an UI designed specifically for Metro will use the Metro environment. What happens when the majority of apps you want to use are Metro apps?
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    That's not the case. Like, it's not like they're removing desktop apps and reinstating them as Metro apps. If you decide to exclusively use Metro apps, then I guess that's your problem. Otherwise, I don't really understand what point you're trying to make. I seriously, seriously question in half of the people attempting to spread shit about Windows 8 here have ever seriously used it for more than 3 minutes in a VM.
    - learc83 14y ago
      Only Metro apps work on Windows RT. Developers want the largest audience possible, so it makes sense that most of them will eventually want to target Windows RT, which is clearly what Microsoft is going for. It's going to get harder and harder to avoid metro apps.
- zanny 14y ago
  Nobody is forcing anyone to use Windows 8 either. And a significant portion of people are taking the opportunity not to.
correctifier 14y ago
It is unfortunate that this kind of information has been spread so widely about Windows 8, but it's just not true. The desktop is still there, icons are still there, overlapping windows are still there, the only thing gone is the start menu, replaced with the metro launch screen that can launch both desktop and metro apps. There are still some issues with the two different environments, especially the difference in look and feel, but it still works well.
- commandar 14y ago
  >It is unfortunate that this kind of information has been spread so widely about Windows 8, but it's just not true. Well, it is and it isn't. Native Metro apps do more or less behave the way he's describing. The thing is, almost no native Metro apps exist right now, so you'll spend the vast majority of your time in traditional desktop mode anyway.

huggyface 14y ago

I'm not sure of his reasoning, but he is not saying that Windows 8 is a catastrophe for users directly. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we'll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. Sounds more like all it is a problem for all of the many players in the Windows space. Now of course Microsoft can do what they want with their ball (subject to DOJ purview), but so can everyone else, including companies like Valve who have been a major influence in keeping the PC relevant for an entire market. If Steam and 2,500 games were available on Linux, that would make a huge case for that platform in the home.

learc83 14y ago
What would cause OEMs to leave the market, other than mass migration by users because of a bad user experience?
- fooey 14y ago
  Win8 is targeting touch, which means it's targeting tablets. It's nearly impossible for a Win8 tablet to compete when it has licensing overhead that Apple and Android devices don't have.
zanny 14y ago
They won't be able to just jump 2,500 DirectX and DirectSound titles off the Windows API onto Wine. Maybe if they spend a few million dollars working on bringing Wine up to date with DX11, and then they have to deal with all the development houses not switching off Visual Studio and DX12 in the coming years, because they won't want to make the jump off the M$ platform.
- CrazedGeek 14y ago
  There's already a pretty good amount of Steam games that have native Linux versions[1], at least one developer has already announced a port of an existing game to Linux through Steam[2], and the company that handles a lot of Mac "ports" (via a Wine-like layer) has a Linux version of said layer pretty much ready to go[3]. It's not gonna be a wasteland by any measure. [1] http://steamlinux.flibitijibibo.com/index.php?title=Native_Games http://steamlinux.flibitijibibo.com/index.php?title=Native_G... [2] http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/25/serious-sam-3-bfe-runs-screaming-to-linux-via-steam/ http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/25/serious-sam-3-bfe-runs-scr... [3] TransGaming makes Cider: http://transgaming.com/cider http://transgaming.com/cider and Cedega/GameTree Linux: http://gametreelinux.com/ http://gametreelinux.com/

commandar 14y ago

>If you don't like Metro, launch the desktop and forget it even exists. Been using W8 on my desktop at work for about a month now. If only it were that easy. The big problem is that W8 is insanely inconsistent. Trying to change system settings can result in having to navigate a byzantine maze guiding you through new Metro interfaces with old-school control panel applets interspersed throughout. The Control Panel still exists, but there's also a Metro PC settings interface, and trying to search will give you some mix of the two. It's just a nightmare to navigate. It's more that the entire user experience sucks than it has anything to do with any single application.

EvanAnderson 14y ago
I haven't looked at the release previews yet but I can only imagine. The antique-looking Windows 3.1 font control panel persisted into Windows 2000, so I can't believe that we'll be rid of the trappings of more recent versions of Windows anytime soon.
ch0wn 14y ago
I got the same impression so far. Take the Metro Windows Update for example. It failed for for me repeatedly without giving any reason until I found the same functionality within the "classic" Control Center where I had to allow the system to reboot in order to install the updates. This is simply a horrible experience in every way.
- b0 14y ago
  I whinged about this to our partner rep who made some calls - apparently they fixed it for RTM. Whether or not that is bullshit or not, I don't know.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  >It failed for for me repeatedly without giving any reason until I found the same functionality within the "classic" Control Center where I had to allow the system to reboot in order to install the updates Wasn't this on the Beta product? Why is everyone talking as if it's on the RTM version?

CamperBob2 14y ago

For rarely launched apps, hit the Win key and start typing the name There should be an app for that. It could be called... oh, I don't know, how about COMMAND.COM?

drivebyacct2 14y ago
What are you talking about? This is how every person I've ever observed ever uses the Start Menu in Windows Vista or 7.
archangel_one 14y ago
Not many application executables in Windows are in your PATH, so cmd is not going to find them. Even for the ones that are, you have to type the name of the .exe which is not necessarily obvious; eg. Visual Studio -> devenv.exe.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  It was a joke, son