6 ms·

>Submarines and aircraft remain the safest, and best way to deliver offensive firepower. Until drones carrying drones carrying drones becomes a thing.

XorNot 2y ago
That doesn't mean anything. There's no reason to think a drone carrier ship would be smaller or cheaper then an aircraft carrier (if it was providing air capability at similar ranges, and if it's not then it'll be much more vulnerable).
- rtkwe 2y ago
  Ships can also loiter and provide better cargo capacity for that sustained presence compared to aircraft which is it's own benefit. To replicate that with an air based carrier you'd have to have more of them flying in shifts to maintain presence and coverage of the area.
- indymike 2y ago
  It depends on what kind of drones you are operating doesn't it? Range, speed and payload seems to be the drivers for gigantism in military vehicles. So if you look at shorter range, or more accurate, smaller explosive delivery, you don't need a USS Ford size thing to act as a mobile base for them. One of the big lessons in Ukraine is that small, cheap and accurate works.
  - ianburrell 2y ago
    The Marines are working in close support drone for their amphibious ships. The proposals are the size of helicopters. The problem is that can’t do short range from ships because it is too dangerous to get close to shore. Anti-ship missiles are common now, and guided artillery and glide bombs are possible. Finally, drones haven’t been useful against ships in Red Sea, and some are good size. Speed matters for getting through defenses. The slow and small ones can be shot down by guns or rockets, the fast ones are anti-ship missiles.
    - indymike 2y ago
      > Finally, drones haven’t been useful against ships in Red Sea Comparing a Houthi attack against a peer adversary drone & missile attack would likely have very different results. Defense depletion (i.e. out of ammo) is the current weakness of defenses. That is why energy weapons are the next big thing - you don't run out of shells for a laser. Counting on defense is a historic proven way to fail at war-fighting. > Speed matters for getting through defenses. As does stealth, surprise, maneuverability, timing, rules of engagement and many other factors. Defense is really difficult - especially given you may be countering something unprecedented. The recent Red Sea activity did not have the element of surprise, no stealth weapons were used and the timing was well known. Not a good bellwether.
FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
There are already submarine drones and sub drone 'fleets'
indymike 2y ago
Arial drones are a subset of aircraft.

XorNot 2y ago

That doesn't mean anything. There's no reason to think a drone carrier ship would be smaller or cheaper then an aircraft carrier (if it was providing air capability at similar ranges, and if it's not then it'll be much more vulnerable).

rtkwe 2y ago
Ships can also loiter and provide better cargo capacity for that sustained presence compared to aircraft which is it's own benefit. To replicate that with an air based carrier you'd have to have more of them flying in shifts to maintain presence and coverage of the area.
indymike 2y ago
It depends on what kind of drones you are operating doesn't it? Range, speed and payload seems to be the drivers for gigantism in military vehicles. So if you look at shorter range, or more accurate, smaller explosive delivery, you don't need a USS Ford size thing to act as a mobile base for them. One of the big lessons in Ukraine is that small, cheap and accurate works.
- ianburrell 2y ago
  The Marines are working in close support drone for their amphibious ships. The proposals are the size of helicopters. The problem is that can’t do short range from ships because it is too dangerous to get close to shore. Anti-ship missiles are common now, and guided artillery and glide bombs are possible. Finally, drones haven’t been useful against ships in Red Sea, and some are good size. Speed matters for getting through defenses. The slow and small ones can be shot down by guns or rockets, the fast ones are anti-ship missiles.
  - indymike 2y ago
    > Finally, drones haven’t been useful against ships in Red Sea Comparing a Houthi attack against a peer adversary drone & missile attack would likely have very different results. Defense depletion (i.e. out of ammo) is the current weakness of defenses. That is why energy weapons are the next big thing - you don't run out of shells for a laser. Counting on defense is a historic proven way to fail at war-fighting. > Speed matters for getting through defenses. As does stealth, surprise, maneuverability, timing, rules of engagement and many other factors. Defense is really difficult - especially given you may be countering something unprecedented. The recent Red Sea activity did not have the element of surprise, no stealth weapons were used and the timing was well known. Not a good bellwether.

FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago

There are already submarine drones and sub drone 'fleets'

indymike 2y ago

Arial drones are a subset of aircraft.