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> It operates its own GNSS constellation. Only 33 years later and mostly launched on Russian rockets, behind GLONASS and BeiDou. > It is second only to NASA.

> It operates its own GNSS constellation. Only 33 years later and mostly launched on Russian rockets, behind GLONASS and BeiDou. > It is second only to NASA. Calling it a failure is ridiculous. In what respect? Space? Certainly not, far behind the US and Russia and questionably competitive with China. Economically? Behind US and China. R&D? Behind US and China. Manufacturing? Behind US and China. You are refusing to recognise reality.

varjag 2y ago
Russia had its last deep space mission (failed) in 1996. GLONASS did not operate until 2005. Chinese contributions to scientific space missions had been very modest although am sure they may catch up later. NASA has 3x the budget of ESA. The question was if the EU method of doing project works and it does in very unambiguous manner.
- closewith 2y ago
  > GLONASS did not operate until 2005. Five years before Galileo. > The question was if the EU method of doing project works and it does in very unambiguous manner. As the EU falls economically and scientifically behinds what used to be our peers, it's obvious that it _doesn't_ work. Refusing to recognise that reality is a spectacular example of the Ostrich effect,
  - varjag 2y ago
    [dead]
  - randomNumber7 2y ago
    It works as good as our energy policy. Ah there are other well working policies in the EU like the migration of skilled workers. All works well /S
- Xelbair 2y ago
  It works great! sadly the results are way behind it's peers, but method is great!
  - varjag 2y ago
    Yeah sure ESA lands a probe on bloody Titan while its peers crash land on the Moon but the results are "way behind". Delirious.
    - closewith 2y ago
      Are you talking about Huygens? That was launched on a Titan IV in 1997(!) and landed in 2005! In 1997, the EU was a global economic and scientific powerhouse. We're talking about the ossification in the last 15-20 years that has not only allowed the US to leapfrog Europe as the largest economy, but China too. You are bordering on delusional with these comments.
      - varjag 2y ago
        Was that literally you who complained that Galileo was too new? Is Huygens too old now? Well take your pick: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:European_Space_Agency_space_probes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:European_Space_Agency...
        closewith 2y ago
        I think it's clear you're commenting in bad faith now, as you aren't open to reasonable arguments. I'll leave you at it.
        varjag 2y ago
        Sorry that you feel this way but saying that EU can't complete complex projects is not a reasonable argument.
        Xelbair 2y ago
throwaway473825 2y ago
Not all satellite systems are equal: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/russia-s-glonass-satellite-system-badly-needs-an-upgrade https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/russia-s-... >The US constellation isn’t as accurate as the newer networks, said Roberts, the Sydney-based professor. “It used to be GPS was out in front,” he said. Now, though, the EU’s Galileo is in the lead, with China’s BeiDou close behind, he said. It's basically Galileo > BeiDou > GPS >>> GLONASS.
- closewith 2y ago
  That would be expected for a system launched 33 years later, but in Galileo and GPS are identical for civilian use (and obviously no-one knows the military capabilities of Block III satellites as that's undisclosed). GPS+Gailleo is the current SOTA, but it's nonsense to say Galileo is "best".
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Galileo has signal authentication, GPS doesn't. In a world where GNSS spoofing is increasingly becoming a hazard to aviation and other applications, that's arguably critical.
    - closewith 2y ago
      Not for civilian use, no, although GPS does for military users. Also, OSNMA is not SA yet.
- Xelbair 2y ago
  And frankly accuracy does not matter. for navigation using Code method GPS-tier is basically good enough. for precise measurement you use phase measurement of the signal, and what you care about is good(low) DoP of constellation and amount of satellites within sight-line - not from which system they come(to oversimplfy it a bit)

varjag 2y ago

Russia had its last deep space mission (failed) in 1996. GLONASS did not operate until 2005. Chinese contributions to scientific space missions had been very modest although am sure they may catch up later. NASA has 3x the budget of ESA. The question was if the EU method of doing project works and it does in very unambiguous manner.

closewith 2y ago
> GLONASS did not operate until 2005. Five years before Galileo. > The question was if the EU method of doing project works and it does in very unambiguous manner. As the EU falls economically and scientifically behinds what used to be our peers, it's obvious that it _doesn't_ work. Refusing to recognise that reality is a spectacular example of the Ostrich effect,
- varjag 2y ago
  [dead]
- randomNumber7 2y ago
  It works as good as our energy policy. Ah there are other well working policies in the EU like the migration of skilled workers. All works well /S
Xelbair 2y ago
It works great! sadly the results are way behind it's peers, but method is great!
- varjag 2y ago
  Yeah sure ESA lands a probe on bloody Titan while its peers crash land on the Moon but the results are "way behind". Delirious.
  - closewith 2y ago
    Are you talking about Huygens? That was launched on a Titan IV in 1997(!) and landed in 2005! In 1997, the EU was a global economic and scientific powerhouse. We're talking about the ossification in the last 15-20 years that has not only allowed the US to leapfrog Europe as the largest economy, but China too. You are bordering on delusional with these comments.
    - varjag 2y ago
      Was that literally you who complained that Galileo was too new? Is Huygens too old now? Well take your pick: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:European_Space_Agency_space_probes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:European_Space_Agency...
      - closewith 2y ago
        I think it's clear you're commenting in bad faith now, as you aren't open to reasonable arguments. I'll leave you at it.
        varjag 2y ago
        Sorry that you feel this way but saying that EU can't complete complex projects is not a reasonable argument.
      - Xelbair 2y ago

throwaway473825 2y ago

Not all satellite systems are equal: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/russia-s-glonass-satellite-system-badly-needs-an-upgrade https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/russia-s-... >The US constellation isn’t as accurate as the newer networks, said Roberts, the Sydney-based professor. “It used to be GPS was out in front,” he said. Now, though, the EU’s Galileo is in the lead, with China’s BeiDou close behind, he said. It's basically Galileo > BeiDou > GPS >>> GLONASS.

closewith 2y ago
That would be expected for a system launched 33 years later, but in Galileo and GPS are identical for civilian use (and obviously no-one knows the military capabilities of Block III satellites as that's undisclosed). GPS+Gailleo is the current SOTA, but it's nonsense to say Galileo is "best".
- lxgr 2y ago
  Galileo has signal authentication, GPS doesn't. In a world where GNSS spoofing is increasingly becoming a hazard to aviation and other applications, that's arguably critical.
  - closewith 2y ago
    Not for civilian use, no, although GPS does for military users. Also, OSNMA is not SA yet.
Xelbair 2y ago
And frankly accuracy does not matter. for navigation using Code method GPS-tier is basically good enough. for precise measurement you use phase measurement of the signal, and what you care about is good(low) DoP of constellation and amount of satellites within sight-line - not from which system they come(to oversimplfy it a bit)