3 ms·

In which a commentator references the Reichstag fire. Perhaps I am misreading this uncharitably? There has been quite a bit of this lately. https://news.ycombi

In which a commentator references the Reichstag fire. Perhaps I am misreading this uncharitably? There has been quite a bit of this lately. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42929327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42929327 EDIT: "Bessent tells lawmakers Musk’s DOGE does not control Treasury payments system " >POLITICO reported Saturday that Bessent signed off on a plan to give “read-only” access to the payment system to a team led by Tom Krause, the CEO of Cloud Software Group, who is now working for the Treasury Department and serves as a liaison to Musk’s DOGE group that operates out of the United States Digital Service. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/03/bessent-musk-doge-treasury-payments-00202278 https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/03/bessent-musk-doge-t...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
If your argument requires picking apart the weakest ones made by someone else and then using that as evidence for your own, it isn't a strong argument. EDIT: Bessent's statement about Krause predates this story about Elez. Bessent doesn't know what he's talking about or Elez is acting illegally. Which one do you think Bessent is going to go with?
- palmfacehn 2y ago
  If there is corruption, I hope they can root it out and expose it publicly. I'm also cautiously optimistic that the 3T deficit may be tackled. I've never seen a president come out so strong in his first weeks on these issues. When Trump campaigned on these issues, I assumed it was just more empty campaign promises. If Elon's allegations that media groups like Vox and others have been eating public funds via USAID are true, I doubt there will be much coverage here at HN. We will see. We're at the point where we must agree to disagree. I've stated that I believe the allegations should be considered at face value, if we are to continue in good faith.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > I hope they can root it out and expose it publicly I do too. We also know, now, that it will be almost impossible to prove the evidence hasn't been tampered with. Holding anyone accountable is going to be challenging. > cautiously optimistic that the 3T deficit may be tackled I'm not. The deficit has been blown out by every President since Clinton. We haven't even started counting the bills from the trade war [1]. (And we're still in the kiddie pool with Canada.) > If Elon's allegations that media groups like Vox and others have been eating public funds via USAID are true That will be something he could have learned through less-extreme means. For what it's worth, I don't think Elez was meant to have write access. I don't think he's changed any data. It was a fuckup. And fuckups have costs. Musk will need to settle political battles. (Trump making a public staement about Musk's power is telling [2].) Elez is fucked, legally, but let's be honest, nobody cares about him. The litigation being brought against DOGE's actions just got evidence administrative procedure isn't being followed; a likely and terrible endgame there is union and NGO lawyers getting de facto judgement power. This news should be broadly infuriating. If you hate DOGE, it's an illegal expansion of power. If you love DOGE, it's undermining its credibility. (Cleverly, Musk had Elez put his fingerprints down and Trump, in turn, can throw Musk under the bus when the next fuckup hurts someone.) [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/03/trump-trade-farm-aid-bailout-00002333 https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/03/trump-trade-farm-ai... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-03/trump-says-musk-sees-treasury-payments-but-can-t-stop-them-alone https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-03/trump-say...
    - palmfacehn 2y ago
      It is worth noting that anonymous sources allege Elez had R/W access. Wired has been seen around the web fishing for anonymous tips from gov. employees. Gov. employees may not be friendly to the incoming administration, which is looking to make wholesale cuts. It isn't immediately clear what kind of system is in use. There may be backups which could conclusively prove files had been edited. > a likely and terrible endgame there is union and NGO lawyers getting de facto judgement power. They were always going to fight on every possible avenue. How much do anonymous press leaks really mean here?
      - 2y ago
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    > I'm also cautiously optimistic that the 3T deficit may be tackled. The only possible way for that to happen requires that Congress passes laws to either (A) spends way less on things (B) collect way more tax. I see no reason to think they'll manage that without substantial electoral reform. OK, technically it could happen if Trump commits more crimes and usurps the government, but I'm sure you don't want that. ________ > If Elon's allegations that media groups like Vox and others have been eating public funds via USAID are true, I doubt there will be much coverage here at HN. We will see. In this specific case, he is lying. In the general case, he lies a lot, from self-driving-next-year promises to Tesla owners, to faking his world-rank in a video game. You should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt by now. To wit: > [Musk] Claiming USAID funds [Bill] Kristol through [Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors] is like saying two organizations are connected because they both use the same bank. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how charitable giving works – or more likely, a deliberate misrepresentation. > But Musk claims he’s stopping USAID from funding Kristol based on this functionally illiterate conspiracy theory, and we’re going to hear more idiots insisting he actually stopped the thing that anyone who knew anything about how charitable giving works would know is untrue. https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbook-comes-for-the-us-government/ https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbo...
Terr_ 2y ago
I see you directed others towards my sardonic comment about how Musk may eventually face penalties for violating the First Amendment, if we avoid (more of a) Constitutional crisis. However I'm having trouble tracking how it relates to this thread, and what you are trying to assert by referencing it.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

If your argument requires picking apart the weakest ones made by someone else and then using that as evidence for your own, it isn't a strong argument. EDIT: Bessent's statement about Krause predates this story about Elez. Bessent doesn't know what he's talking about or Elez is acting illegally. Which one do you think Bessent is going to go with?

palmfacehn 2y ago
If there is corruption, I hope they can root it out and expose it publicly. I'm also cautiously optimistic that the 3T deficit may be tackled. I've never seen a president come out so strong in his first weeks on these issues. When Trump campaigned on these issues, I assumed it was just more empty campaign promises. If Elon's allegations that media groups like Vox and others have been eating public funds via USAID are true, I doubt there will be much coverage here at HN. We will see. We're at the point where we must agree to disagree. I've stated that I believe the allegations should be considered at face value, if we are to continue in good faith.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > I hope they can root it out and expose it publicly I do too. We also know, now, that it will be almost impossible to prove the evidence hasn't been tampered with. Holding anyone accountable is going to be challenging. > cautiously optimistic that the 3T deficit may be tackled I'm not. The deficit has been blown out by every President since Clinton. We haven't even started counting the bills from the trade war [1]. (And we're still in the kiddie pool with Canada.) > If Elon's allegations that media groups like Vox and others have been eating public funds via USAID are true That will be something he could have learned through less-extreme means. For what it's worth, I don't think Elez was meant to have write access. I don't think he's changed any data. It was a fuckup. And fuckups have costs. Musk will need to settle political battles. (Trump making a public staement about Musk's power is telling [2].) Elez is fucked, legally, but let's be honest, nobody cares about him. The litigation being brought against DOGE's actions just got evidence administrative procedure isn't being followed; a likely and terrible endgame there is union and NGO lawyers getting de facto judgement power. This news should be broadly infuriating. If you hate DOGE, it's an illegal expansion of power. If you love DOGE, it's undermining its credibility. (Cleverly, Musk had Elez put his fingerprints down and Trump, in turn, can throw Musk under the bus when the next fuckup hurts someone.) [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/03/trump-trade-farm-aid-bailout-00002333 https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/03/trump-trade-farm-ai... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-03/trump-says-musk-sees-treasury-payments-but-can-t-stop-them-alone https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-03/trump-say...
  - palmfacehn 2y ago
    It is worth noting that anonymous sources allege Elez had R/W access. Wired has been seen around the web fishing for anonymous tips from gov. employees. Gov. employees may not be friendly to the incoming administration, which is looking to make wholesale cuts. It isn't immediately clear what kind of system is in use. There may be backups which could conclusively prove files had been edited. > a likely and terrible endgame there is union and NGO lawyers getting de facto judgement power. They were always going to fight on every possible avenue. How much do anonymous press leaks really mean here?
    - 2y ago
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > I'm also cautiously optimistic that the 3T deficit may be tackled. The only possible way for that to happen requires that Congress passes laws to either (A) spends way less on things (B) collect way more tax. I see no reason to think they'll manage that without substantial electoral reform. OK, technically it could happen if Trump commits more crimes and usurps the government, but I'm sure you don't want that. ________ > If Elon's allegations that media groups like Vox and others have been eating public funds via USAID are true, I doubt there will be much coverage here at HN. We will see. In this specific case, he is lying. In the general case, he lies a lot, from self-driving-next-year promises to Tesla owners, to faking his world-rank in a video game. You should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt by now. To wit: > [Musk] Claiming USAID funds [Bill] Kristol through [Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors] is like saying two organizations are connected because they both use the same bank. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how charitable giving works – or more likely, a deliberate misrepresentation. > But Musk claims he’s stopping USAID from funding Kristol based on this functionally illiterate conspiracy theory, and we’re going to hear more idiots insisting he actually stopped the thing that anyone who knew anything about how charitable giving works would know is untrue. https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbook-comes-for-the-us-government/ https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/the-twitter-files-playbo...

Terr_ 2y ago

I see you directed others towards my sardonic comment about how Musk may eventually face penalties for violating the First Amendment, if we avoid (more of a) Constitutional crisis. However I'm having trouble tracking how it relates to this thread, and what you are trying to assert by referencing it.