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I'm also somewhat confused by it. To my (admittedly limited) knowledge of immigration in the US, it was not really endorsed by any major figure or movement. In

I'm also somewhat confused by it. To my (admittedly limited) knowledge of immigration in the US, it was not really endorsed by any major figure or movement. In fact there were many anti immigration bills and laws written during that time.

pfannkuchen 2y ago
Right, and I think the average American citizen at the time would consider the current immigration situation in America to be straightforwardly insane. They were really incredibly racist by today’s standards back then. So it’s quite weird to reference that poem as if America is in danger of losing some virtue it used to have back at that time, when if anything it is in danger of returning to the actual mainstream views at the time the poem was written.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > reference that poem as if America is in danger of losing some virtue it used to have back at that time, when if anything it is in danger of returning to the actual mainstream views at the time the poem was written I literally just quoted the poem. If anything, this thread is the most-interesting literary criticism of it I've seen. It's a Rorscach test of something, and I'm genuinely unsure what that something is.
  - TMWNN 2y ago
    >I literally just quoted the poem You and I both know that this is not your first day on the Internet. Are you really claiming to be unfamiliar with the fact that that the poem's most frequent use online is as an all-size-fits-all riposte against any and all immigration enforcement? What pfannkuchen said, "So it’s quite weird to reference that poem as if America is in danger of losing some virtue it used to have back at that time", very well describes its typical usage.
    - pseudalopex 2y ago
      Even quoting the poem with approval does not imply any belief about popular opinions when it was written. People quote the Declaration of Independence knowing it was written by a slave owner.
      - TMWNN 2y ago
        The Declaration, and the Constitution, set out ideals and standards. That neither the country nor its citizens (including their authors) always live up to them does not invalidate their worthiness. The Lazarus poem is, as I said, typically used in online debate as a universal cudgel. "By quoting this STUNNING AND BRAVE poem, I have 100% defeated your evil racist right-wing anti-migrant rhetoric! I don't have to provide the name of the author, the poem's name, the circumstances behind its writing, when and how it appeared on the pedestal, the standards every immigrant had to meet to pass through Ellis Island, or anything else! IT'S THAT POWERFUL!!!1!!!!!11"
        pseudalopex 2y ago
        > The Declaration, and the Constitution, set out ideals and standards. That neither the country nor its citizens (including their authors) always live up to them does not invalidate their worthiness. The poem sets out ideals and standards. That neither the country nor its citizens (including their authors) always live up to them does not invalidate their worthiness. > The Lazarus poem is, as I said, typically used in online debate as a universal cudgel. "By quoting this STUNNING AND BRAVE poem, I have 100% defeated your evil racist right-wing anti-migrant rhetoric! I don't have to provide the name of the author, the poem's name, the circumstances behind its writing, when and how it appeared on the pedestal, the standards every immigrant had to meet to pass through Ellis Island, or anything else! IT'S THAT POWERFUL!!!1!!!!!11" The poem is famous. Most search engines are free. Are you equally histrionic when someone quotes the Declaration of Independence without title and author?
  - trumpvoter 2y ago
    This will be flagged just as much as the other one but still just saying - there's no such thing as "just quoted" in reality right? To be more concrete, quoting is always to support some sort of narrative, just look at all the quotes or citations in a typical research paper.
- pseudalopex 2y ago
  The poem was written to persuade. It is quite normal someone would find it persuasive or employ it to persuade others.

pfannkuchen 2y ago

Right, and I think the average American citizen at the time would consider the current immigration situation in America to be straightforwardly insane. They were really incredibly racist by today’s standards back then. So it’s quite weird to reference that poem as if America is in danger of losing some virtue it used to have back at that time, when if anything it is in danger of returning to the actual mainstream views at the time the poem was written.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> reference that poem as if America is in danger of losing some virtue it used to have back at that time, when if anything it is in danger of returning to the actual mainstream views at the time the poem was written I literally just quoted the poem. If anything, this thread is the most-interesting literary criticism of it I've seen. It's a Rorscach test of something, and I'm genuinely unsure what that something is.
- TMWNN 2y ago
  >I literally just quoted the poem You and I both know that this is not your first day on the Internet. Are you really claiming to be unfamiliar with the fact that that the poem's most frequent use online is as an all-size-fits-all riposte against any and all immigration enforcement? What pfannkuchen said, "So it’s quite weird to reference that poem as if America is in danger of losing some virtue it used to have back at that time", very well describes its typical usage.
  - pseudalopex 2y ago
    Even quoting the poem with approval does not imply any belief about popular opinions when it was written. People quote the Declaration of Independence knowing it was written by a slave owner.
    - TMWNN 2y ago
      The Declaration, and the Constitution, set out ideals and standards. That neither the country nor its citizens (including their authors) always live up to them does not invalidate their worthiness. The Lazarus poem is, as I said, typically used in online debate as a universal cudgel. "By quoting this STUNNING AND BRAVE poem, I have 100% defeated your evil racist right-wing anti-migrant rhetoric! I don't have to provide the name of the author, the poem's name, the circumstances behind its writing, when and how it appeared on the pedestal, the standards every immigrant had to meet to pass through Ellis Island, or anything else! IT'S THAT POWERFUL!!!1!!!!!11"
      - pseudalopex 2y ago
        > The Declaration, and the Constitution, set out ideals and standards. That neither the country nor its citizens (including their authors) always live up to them does not invalidate their worthiness. The poem sets out ideals and standards. That neither the country nor its citizens (including their authors) always live up to them does not invalidate their worthiness. > The Lazarus poem is, as I said, typically used in online debate as a universal cudgel. "By quoting this STUNNING AND BRAVE poem, I have 100% defeated your evil racist right-wing anti-migrant rhetoric! I don't have to provide the name of the author, the poem's name, the circumstances behind its writing, when and how it appeared on the pedestal, the standards every immigrant had to meet to pass through Ellis Island, or anything else! IT'S THAT POWERFUL!!!1!!!!!11" The poem is famous. Most search engines are free. Are you equally histrionic when someone quotes the Declaration of Independence without title and author?
- trumpvoter 2y ago
  This will be flagged just as much as the other one but still just saying - there's no such thing as "just quoted" in reality right? To be more concrete, quoting is always to support some sort of narrative, just look at all the quotes or citations in a typical research paper.
pseudalopex 2y ago
The poem was written to persuade. It is quite normal someone would find it persuasive or employ it to persuade others.