3 ms·

Can we get some sources that back the narrative for that last sentence?

DocTomoe 2y ago
EU bending backwards to meet US demands to access non-US-related traveller records: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-us-agreement-on-airline-passenger-name-record-data.html?fromSummary=32 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-us-agr... Yes, it only affects airlines that have connections to the US. But if I book Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tokyo, the PNR will still be sent to the US, for Lufthansa has connections to the US. Yes, there are 'safeguards' in there, to shackle the DHS to be responsible with the data - but who seriously thinks the data, once in US hands, is used responsibly and only for the matters outlined in the treaty? The US has been less of a reliable partner for decades now. Oh, right. They won't do that for financial transactions, right? Right? https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement-between-the-european-union-and-the-united-states-on-the-transfer-of-financial-messaging-data.html?fromSummary=23 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement...
- fredoliveira 2y ago
  > Yes, it only affects airlines that have connections to the US. But if I book Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tokyo, the PNR will still be sent to the US, for Lufthansa has connections to the US. Any proof of that claim? The agreement specifically mentions flights between the EU and the US, so any departure from that (like the scenario you describe) is unlawful, according to my own understanding.
  - DocTomoe 2y ago
    Where do you read this only affects flights between the EU and the US? Article 2.1 clearly states it is applicable to all EU airlines *operating* flights to or from the US. That does not mean they ONLY have to provide PNR FOR those flights Article 3 speaks about "Data in their (the airlines) reservation systems". There's no limitation to only US-related flights. The specific mention of flights to and from the US you are likely refer to is in the preamble, referencing a law the US set up prior.
- csunbird 2y ago
  The financial transactions are also shared by the both sides, EU can also request data from US, as clearly stated in the document. Both document clearly define the uses cases that are applicable for the data sharing, and the second document linked by you also explicitly states that US has to put same effort to provide same capabilities to EU as well.

EU bending backwards to meet US demands to access non-US-related traveller records: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-us-agreement-on-airline-passenger-name-record-data.html?fromSummary=32 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-us-agr... Yes, it only affects airlines that have connections to the US. But if I book Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tokyo, the PNR will still be sent to the US, for Lufthansa has connections to the US. Yes, there are 'safeguards' in there, to shackle the DHS to be responsible with the data - but who seriously thinks the data, once in US hands, is used responsibly and only for the matters outlined in the treaty? The US has been less of a reliable partner for decades now. Oh, right. They won't do that for financial transactions, right? Right? https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement-between-the-european-union-and-the-united-states-on-the-transfer-of-financial-messaging-data.html?fromSummary=23 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement...

fredoliveira 2y ago
> Yes, it only affects airlines that have connections to the US. But if I book Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tokyo, the PNR will still be sent to the US, for Lufthansa has connections to the US. Any proof of that claim? The agreement specifically mentions flights between the EU and the US, so any departure from that (like the scenario you describe) is unlawful, according to my own understanding.
- DocTomoe 2y ago
  Where do you read this only affects flights between the EU and the US? Article 2.1 clearly states it is applicable to all EU airlines *operating* flights to or from the US. That does not mean they ONLY have to provide PNR FOR those flights Article 3 speaks about "Data in their (the airlines) reservation systems". There's no limitation to only US-related flights. The specific mention of flights to and from the US you are likely refer to is in the preamble, referencing a law the US set up prior.
csunbird 2y ago
The financial transactions are also shared by the both sides, EU can also request data from US, as clearly stated in the document. Both document clearly define the uses cases that are applicable for the data sharing, and the second document linked by you also explicitly states that US has to put same effort to provide same capabilities to EU as well.