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Regardless of whether you think of them as successful or failed, I don't think you can see El Salvador's policies as "progressive".

by the_af 2y ago

influx 2y ago
How is it "progressive" to allow public safety issues to disproportionately impact vulnerable populations?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- aredox 2y ago
  Is Omelas "progressive"?
next_xibalba 2y ago
[flagged]
- aredox 2y ago
  Bukele has emprisoned a large part of the population for the rest of their life in concentration camps. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250128-no-way-out-grim-conditions-in-el-salvador-s-mega-prison-for-gangs https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250128-no-way-out-gr... If he was killing them directly in gas chambers instead of letting them rot in prison, the population would be as safe, if not safer, forever. Would that still be "progressive" for you? Would you have supported Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" too, at the time? Or sterilizing poor people? I mean, those are perfectly logical suggestions that would work, wouldn't they?
  - next_xibalba 2y ago
    These people have made the affirmative choice to join gangs that terrorize law abiding citizens. Their choke hold on El Salvador has prevented others from living safe, prosperous lives (not to mention the countless people they've killed). Removing them from society is progress. The amount of utils gained by the large majority far outweighs those lost by these criminals. And frankly, it's a false equivalence anyway bc they're, y'know, criminals. > Would you have supported Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" too, at the time? Or sterilizing poor people? I mean, those are perfectly logical suggestions that would work, wouldn't they? You have erected a startling number of straw men in your response. I'll ignore them. We should do things that both work and benefit society. We should not do things that don't work. Here's a short an non-exhaustive list of "progressive" things that don't work: restorative justice, tolerating crime, allowing the destruction of the commons by the mentally ill and addicted, allowing criminals to be free and wreck society due to legal technicalities, bureaucracy, and corruption. And thus, as I wrote previously, the word "progressive" seems to have fully inverted. Things that enable or create progress are called regressive, while things that are actually regressive and destructure are called progressive.
- the_af 2y ago
  There are alternative paths one could take to address society's ills. I'm saying Bukele's policies aren't progressive. Furthermore, he doesn't consider them progressive. His allies in the Latin American ultra right wing don't consider them progressive. "Progressive" to them is an insult.

Regardless of whether you think of them as successful or failed, I don't think you can see El Salvador's policies as "progressive".

by the_af 2y ago

Regardless of whether you think of them as successful or failed, I don't think you can see El Salvador's policies as "progressive".

influx 2y ago

How is it "progressive" to allow public safety issues to disproportionately impact vulnerable populations?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
aredox 2y ago
Is Omelas "progressive"?

next_xibalba 2y ago

[flagged]

aredox 2y ago
Bukele has emprisoned a large part of the population for the rest of their life in concentration camps. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250128-no-way-out-grim-conditions-in-el-salvador-s-mega-prison-for-gangs https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250128-no-way-out-gr... If he was killing them directly in gas chambers instead of letting them rot in prison, the population would be as safe, if not safer, forever. Would that still be "progressive" for you? Would you have supported Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" too, at the time? Or sterilizing poor people? I mean, those are perfectly logical suggestions that would work, wouldn't they?
- next_xibalba 2y ago
  These people have made the affirmative choice to join gangs that terrorize law abiding citizens. Their choke hold on El Salvador has prevented others from living safe, prosperous lives (not to mention the countless people they've killed). Removing them from society is progress. The amount of utils gained by the large majority far outweighs those lost by these criminals. And frankly, it's a false equivalence anyway bc they're, y'know, criminals. > Would you have supported Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" too, at the time? Or sterilizing poor people? I mean, those are perfectly logical suggestions that would work, wouldn't they? You have erected a startling number of straw men in your response. I'll ignore them. We should do things that both work and benefit society. We should not do things that don't work. Here's a short an non-exhaustive list of "progressive" things that don't work: restorative justice, tolerating crime, allowing the destruction of the commons by the mentally ill and addicted, allowing criminals to be free and wreck society due to legal technicalities, bureaucracy, and corruption. And thus, as I wrote previously, the word "progressive" seems to have fully inverted. Things that enable or create progress are called regressive, while things that are actually regressive and destructure are called progressive.
the_af 2y ago
There are alternative paths one could take to address society's ills. I'm saying Bukele's policies aren't progressive. Furthermore, he doesn't consider them progressive. His allies in the Latin American ultra right wing don't consider them progressive. "Progressive" to them is an insult.