5 ms·

up to 20 years. Realistically some kid downloading a model would get probation, and you'd only get 20 years if you were making an entire enterprise out of it.

by gruez 2y ago

up to 20 years. Realistically some kid downloading a model would get probation, and you'd only get 20 years if you were making an entire enterprise out of it. relevant: https://web.archive.org/web/20130208124604/https://www.popehat.com/2013/02/05/crime-whale-sushi-sentence-eleventy-million-years/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130208124604/https://www.popeh...

pixl97 2y ago
You and I know this isn't how this works. The moment the government wants to punish someone over this they will grab some random kid that's barely done anything and threaten them with the full 20 years to serve as an example to others.
- gruez 2y ago
  Where's the kid rotting in federal prison for downloading a mp3? Does the music/movie industry not have good enough lobbyists to make an example of a torrenter?
  - pixl97 2y ago
    I don't know, you tell me what happend to that Aaron guy that ran Reddit?
    - gruez 2y ago
      Thanks for proving my point. Schwartz was offered 6 months in a minimum security prison, but he declined it because he specifically wanted a trial. Moreover that was for effectively DoSing JSTOR, a much more serious crime than some guy using a vpn to download an AI model. I don't think 6 months was justified, nor the string of crimes he was charged with, but OP's assertion that "You get less jail time for committing 34 felonies" is still false. >During plea negotiations with Swartz's attorneys, the prosecutors offered to recommend a sentence of six months in a low-security prison if Swartz pled guilty to 13 federal crimes. Swartz and his lead attorney rejected the deal, opting instead for a trial where prosecutors would be forced to justify their pursuit of him.
      - dgfitz 2y ago
        Facts need not apply. We’re righteously indignant for goodness sake! Stop with all the nonsense “facts” and “reality” unless they fit the narrative.
      - AlotOfReading 2y ago
        It's a shame Swartz was downloading JSTOR articles to share. He could have DoS'd half the internet and gotten away scot-free if he'd been training an ML system instead.
        plagiarist 2y ago
        You just need articles of incorporation and all crimes become civil matters.
      - SuperNinKenDo 2y ago
        I think the issue under discussion is whether or not this kind of law is applied gently and with consideration to seriousness, or whether it tends to be used as a club to make an example of people. I think Swartz is seen as an example of it being used as a club to make an example of people.
        gruez 2y ago
        >I think the issue under discussion is whether or not this kind of law is applied gently and with consideration to seriousness, or whether it tends to be used as a club to make an example of people. I'm not sure how you got that impression from the original exchange of: >>[...] You get less jail time for committing 34 felonies. >up to 20 years. Realistically some kid downloading a model would get probation [...]
        SuperNinKenDo 2y ago
        I didn't get that impression from the original exchange, I got it from the thread I am responding to involving Aaron Swartz being given as a counter-example to the last point, and inferring why somebody would use Aaron Swartz as a counter-example. Seems I was right in that inference, given other responses to the thread since.
    - UncleOxidant 2y ago
      I finally got around to watching "The Internet's Own Boy" the other day. He told his girlfriend as they were driving by the Whitehouse that didn't want to accept the plea deal and plead guilty "because felons can't work in that building" [the Whitehouse]. Oh, man, how times have changed.
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    Capital Records vs Jamie Thomas where Capital Records was awarded around 2 million in damages and Sony vs Joel Tenenbaum. These cases are not uncommon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Records%2C_Inc._v._Thomas-Rasset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Records%2C_Inc._v._Tho... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_v._Tenenbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_v._Tenenbaum
    - gruez 2y ago
      Civil vs criminal. Federal sentencing guidelines don't apply.
      - 9283409232 2y ago
        You want federal then take a step out and look at all the people who got 10-15 years for carrying an quarter ounce of weed. Sentencing is very selective based on who they want to make an example of and when.
        gruez 2y ago
        >You want federal then take a step out and look at all the people who got 10-15 years for carrying an quarter ounce of weed. Source? My impression is that in basically all of those cases, it's either because: 1. the guy is a repeat offender and/or on probation 2. the guy decided to wanted to fight to the bitter end and they threw the book at them I'm not saying either are justified, but the implication that someone will get 20 years just because he downloaded deepseek through ollama or whatever is still false.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > the guy is a repeat offender and/or on probation “It was for two or three quarter ounces of weed!” isn’t the defense you imagine.
        spondylosaurus 2y ago
        https://nitter.net/ddmeyer/status/1220480907393372160#m https://nitter.net/ddmeyer/status/1220480907393372160#m (The graphs in the first tweet are from page 55 of the linked PDF.)
  - jrflowers 2y ago
    This is a good point. If one thing didn’t happen then a different unrelated thing cannot happen. You would think that the reason for nobody being in jail for downloading mp3s would be that there is no criminal law against downloading mp3s but actu
  - SuperNinKenDo 2y ago
    Pirating is not a criminal offense in America. It is in other parts of the world, like Japan, which, tangentially, is why Japanese piracy is so underground and tends to use different software stacks to the norm, cf. Perfect Dark (the filesharing program, not the game).
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
realreal89 2y ago
[flagged]

by gruez 2y ago

pixl97 2y ago

You and I know this isn't how this works. The moment the government wants to punish someone over this they will grab some random kid that's barely done anything and threaten them with the full 20 years to serve as an example to others.

gruez 2y ago
Where's the kid rotting in federal prison for downloading a mp3? Does the music/movie industry not have good enough lobbyists to make an example of a torrenter?
- pixl97 2y ago
  I don't know, you tell me what happend to that Aaron guy that ran Reddit?
  - gruez 2y ago
    Thanks for proving my point. Schwartz was offered 6 months in a minimum security prison, but he declined it because he specifically wanted a trial. Moreover that was for effectively DoSing JSTOR, a much more serious crime than some guy using a vpn to download an AI model. I don't think 6 months was justified, nor the string of crimes he was charged with, but OP's assertion that "You get less jail time for committing 34 felonies" is still false. >During plea negotiations with Swartz's attorneys, the prosecutors offered to recommend a sentence of six months in a low-security prison if Swartz pled guilty to 13 federal crimes. Swartz and his lead attorney rejected the deal, opting instead for a trial where prosecutors would be forced to justify their pursuit of him.
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      Facts need not apply. We’re righteously indignant for goodness sake! Stop with all the nonsense “facts” and “reality” unless they fit the narrative.
    - AlotOfReading 2y ago
      It's a shame Swartz was downloading JSTOR articles to share. He could have DoS'd half the internet and gotten away scot-free if he'd been training an ML system instead.
      - plagiarist 2y ago
        You just need articles of incorporation and all crimes become civil matters.
    - SuperNinKenDo 2y ago
      I think the issue under discussion is whether or not this kind of law is applied gently and with consideration to seriousness, or whether it tends to be used as a club to make an example of people. I think Swartz is seen as an example of it being used as a club to make an example of people.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >I think the issue under discussion is whether or not this kind of law is applied gently and with consideration to seriousness, or whether it tends to be used as a club to make an example of people. I'm not sure how you got that impression from the original exchange of: >>[...] You get less jail time for committing 34 felonies. >up to 20 years. Realistically some kid downloading a model would get probation [...]
        SuperNinKenDo 2y ago
        I didn't get that impression from the original exchange, I got it from the thread I am responding to involving Aaron Swartz being given as a counter-example to the last point, and inferring why somebody would use Aaron Swartz as a counter-example. Seems I was right in that inference, given other responses to the thread since.
  - UncleOxidant 2y ago
    I finally got around to watching "The Internet's Own Boy" the other day. He told his girlfriend as they were driving by the Whitehouse that didn't want to accept the plea deal and plead guilty "because felons can't work in that building" [the Whitehouse]. Oh, man, how times have changed.
- 9283409232 2y ago
  Capital Records vs Jamie Thomas where Capital Records was awarded around 2 million in damages and Sony vs Joel Tenenbaum. These cases are not uncommon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Records%2C_Inc._v._Thomas-Rasset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Records%2C_Inc._v._Tho... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_v._Tenenbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_v._Tenenbaum
  - gruez 2y ago
    Civil vs criminal. Federal sentencing guidelines don't apply.
    - 9283409232 2y ago
      You want federal then take a step out and look at all the people who got 10-15 years for carrying an quarter ounce of weed. Sentencing is very selective based on who they want to make an example of and when.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >You want federal then take a step out and look at all the people who got 10-15 years for carrying an quarter ounce of weed. Source? My impression is that in basically all of those cases, it's either because: 1. the guy is a repeat offender and/or on probation 2. the guy decided to wanted to fight to the bitter end and they threw the book at them I'm not saying either are justified, but the implication that someone will get 20 years just because he downloaded deepseek through ollama or whatever is still false.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > the guy is a repeat offender and/or on probation “It was for two or three quarter ounces of weed!” isn’t the defense you imagine.
      - spondylosaurus 2y ago
        https://nitter.net/ddmeyer/status/1220480907393372160#m https://nitter.net/ddmeyer/status/1220480907393372160#m (The graphs in the first tweet are from page 55 of the linked PDF.)
- jrflowers 2y ago
  This is a good point. If one thing didn’t happen then a different unrelated thing cannot happen. You would think that the reason for nobody being in jail for downloading mp3s would be that there is no criminal law against downloading mp3s but actu
- SuperNinKenDo 2y ago
  Pirating is not a criminal offense in America. It is in other parts of the world, like Japan, which, tangentially, is why Japanese piracy is so underground and tends to use different software stacks to the norm, cf. Perfect Dark (the filesharing program, not the game).

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

realreal89 2y ago

[flagged]