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> More than 50% of men just never receive a like, and never means maybe 2 or 3 likes in the lifespan of several weeks As someone in that more than 50%, it’s ve

> More than 50% of men just never receive a like, and never means maybe 2 or 3 likes in the lifespan of several weeks As someone in that more than 50%, it’s very annoying to constantly get told to get on the apps to meet women. I’m surrounded by men in the top 20% because I’m affluent, well educated, and spend a lot of time at the gym. Sadly, I’m just around these people and wasn’t born into the same kind of family. I’m an outsider. I was born poor and ugly. I’ve solved the poor thing but being ugly is incurable. I’m going to Beverley hills next week and getting more surgery to try to alleviate the ugliness but it’s pathetic what a man in his mid-30’s has to do now to even get a single like back on his profile. Women don’t need men anymore in the developed world. Men are luxury goods and women are completely happy to live without. A man isn’t needed but merely wanted and only wanted if he fits a very particular set of criteria.

jfengel 2y ago
Out of curiosity... what does "ugly" mean? Is it deformed, or just not conforming to a cultural beauty standard?
- bradlys 2y ago
  Ugly by most standards is simply not being desired by anyone. You don't have to be an acid victim like two-face to be ugly. I'd say someone is definitely ugly if you swipe on a few hundred average looking people and get zero matches back. That's ugly.
  - jfengel 2y ago
    Understood. Thank you.
  - j1elo 2y ago
    > if you swipe on a few hundred average looking people and get zero matches back. That's ugly. What's ugly is using an anemometer to measure a distance. I mean, using number of matches in a dating app, to measure uglyness. Dating apps are products designed by psychologist and built by engineers to generate frustration and make people pay, not to serve as a measurement stick of the average person's attractiveness. Dating apps are utterly broken. Don't do that to yourself, or to anyone. Meeting women in the Real World through common acquaintances. That's where the moat is.
    - lifestyleguru 2y ago
      Can confirm from personal experience. Do not even think of installing Tinder as a male with intention not to pay. Tinder with platinum is frustrating enough for a male. In revenge, every relationship initiated with gold and platinum I threw out to the bin after some sex.
      - j1elo 2y ago
        The article says it all: paying is the losing strategy. > Likes received [by men] have a positive impact, but it is very light, which is a good thing from a monetization standpoint (you can make guys pay and not show them to anyone; they will keep paying, just a bit less than if they received likes. [...]) I can confirm. Payed once for a whole year, and got absolutely buried. Went from a decent rate of interactions to 2~3 likes (not matches) per week. And after the premium period ended, exactly on that same day, the previous rate of likes was restored! That's how I know they were intentionally not showing my profile around to other users. Taking revenge on other users because of the predatory design of a dating app is, sincerely, disingenuous, childish and even irresponsible. Just stop using the bad product and try to cultivate real connections with people out there.
    - missedthecue 2y ago
      Do you think if a non-profit open source dating app existed, with a sizable userbase, results would be different for the average guy? People are quick to blame the greedy for profit business model, and I'm sure that has something to do with it, but with women swiping left on 95% of profiles (according to the article) it's hard to imagine designing a dating app that changes the math meaningfully. No matter the business model, you're not likely to turn that 95% into 75% or 50%.
      - j1elo 2y ago
        I don't think so, because there are more factors. For example, that women are extremely much more picky in apps than in real life. That's something that a FOSS product wouldn't solve, because it's a behavioral thing.
    - 2y ago
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  Under 6'2".
giacomoforte 2y ago
Find a poor girl. You are probably going for the ones with a ton of options. Get out of your bubble.
- bradlys 2y ago
  I’m not interested in charity or exploitation.
  - giacomoforte 2y ago
    A girl who started off at the same level as you, will appreciate what you have accomplished. A girl who grew up well off won't.
    - bradlys 2y ago
      I’ve experimented with both. Neither really values where you come from and what you’ve accomplished. What they care about is what you’re going to do for them. In my case, I just happen to care about what they’ll do back because I’m not interested in super imbalanced relationships.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        You’re judging “balance in a relationship” by how much money you both make? You said earlier you are making $700K. Would you not date a teacher making $70K?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
Synaesthesia 2y ago
I think the problem with apps is they emphasise looks, when women are also attracted to confidence, which is something you can work on.
- bradlys 2y ago
  I think we’re going through a cultural shift. Looks is becoming the most important thing across the board. Most people won’t meet your partner but they’ll see them on social media. You need someone you feel proud about and secure of. On top of this, women are becoming more superficial than in previous years due to relationships being luxuries. If a man was a solid laborer, upstanding citizen, and otherwise a dedicated family man - he would’ve done alright in certain periods of our history. But now, that’s not really that attractive. Women are much more susceptible to shifting societal trends. You can see this around the world. As women become more online, marriage rates plummet. We’re moving further and further away from meeting your partners in real life. It’s going to be an uncommon way to meet in the future and what we will find isn’t that everyone just meets online - it’s that most people refuse to be together overall.
nooron 2y ago
Hey, I am a man who got work that is probably like what you are getting. Email is in bio if you want to talk a little.
throwaway314155 2y ago
This is some entitled, toxic bullshit. edit: This was harsh and inaccurate. I apologize.
- beeflet 2y ago
  I think most people feel entitled to a romantic relationship in their life, and they're going to do whatever they need to do to attain that, regardless of whether or not you think it's "entitled".
  - throwaway314155 2y ago
    You're not entitled to a relationship is the fact of the matter. It should be treated with respect and not as something you are owed. You know why? Because the man or woman on the other end of it is a person with a whole lived experience, feelings and capacity for love. They deserve better than some bitter resentment at never getting something you were "owed by destiny".
    - beeflet 2y ago
      I think pretty much everyone deserves to be in a relationship for the same reason I think everyone deserves to learn how to ride a bicycle, or read a book, or learn to swim or have a friend or get a job. It is simply an experience that I think everyone should experience at least once in their life. People aren't entitled to a relationship? In what sense? Legally? sure. The fact of the matter is that on a basic level, most people expect to find love in their life. And whatever institution that interrupts most people from achieving normal life goals like having a decent-paying job and having a normal relationship will either be torn down or will tear down society with it, whether it's AI automation of jobs or dating apps or whatever. I am also a human being with an entire lived experience, and I am done with people like you belittling me. I have my own goals, and I am going to achieve them regardless of what people like you think. Is that entitled? So what? A lot of my difficulty in dating has been building my confidence and overcoming this notion that I don't deserve anything instilled in me by people like you. I am not resentful or bitter, but I am angry at people like you for misrepresenting my beliefs and presenting your own perspective as "fact", when in fact you are the minority. Most people do feel entitled to a relationship, whether or not they say so.
scarface_74 2y ago
> Women don’t need men anymore in the developed world. Men are luxury goods and women are completely happy to live without. A man isn’t needed but merely wanted and only wanted if he fits a very particular set of criteria. I’m not accusing you of being an incel (I’m really not trying to be sarcastic). But this has some real incel vibes. Are you a 2 only trying to date 10s? And I am not looking down from you from on high. I’m not wealthy. I’m doing okay. I’m definitely not tall. In my younger dating days I was in great shape (a part time fitness instructor) and if I weren’t out there as one of the few straight men without any feminine tendencies (is that a PC thing to say?) in a industry mostly with women and gay men, I wouldn’t have fared as well. But I wasn’t 5 foot 4 trying to step to a 5 foot 10 supermodel.
- lmm 2y ago
  They probably are literally involuntarily celibate. Women in the west are choosing, quite reasonably, to hook up with the top 20% of men and ignore the rest. I'm not saying that as a blame thing - I don't blame them, I might make the same choice in their position. But the result is that the bottom 80% of men have practically no options - and no, lowering their standards doesn't help, it's not a problem of having potential partners they don't want, it's a problem of not having potential partners at all. I wish we could at least be honest about this rather than victim-blaming.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    61% of women in the US are married or cohabitating and that doesn’t include those who are dating. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-share-of-u-s-adults-are-living-without-a-spouse-or-partner/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-... Yes I know that not all women are heterosexual. But I also didn’t include women who are in a heterosexual relationship but are not living with someone. It’s statistically impossible for only 20% of the men to be in a relationship or having sex.
    - strix_varius 2y ago
      While the previous commenter's numbers are exaggerated, the data from articles like this (and a decade ago, from okcupid), consistently shows stark asymmetry between the dating preferences of men and women - to the disadvantage of men in the "bottom" 50%. Before marrying, most of those 61% of women dated other men, and likely with a strong skew towards the top 20% as claimed.
aianus 2y ago
Get a passport. You only have one life.

jfengel 2y ago

Out of curiosity... what does "ugly" mean? Is it deformed, or just not conforming to a cultural beauty standard?

bradlys 2y ago
Ugly by most standards is simply not being desired by anyone. You don't have to be an acid victim like two-face to be ugly. I'd say someone is definitely ugly if you swipe on a few hundred average looking people and get zero matches back. That's ugly.
- jfengel 2y ago
  Understood. Thank you.
- j1elo 2y ago
  > if you swipe on a few hundred average looking people and get zero matches back. That's ugly. What's ugly is using an anemometer to measure a distance. I mean, using number of matches in a dating app, to measure uglyness. Dating apps are products designed by psychologist and built by engineers to generate frustration and make people pay, not to serve as a measurement stick of the average person's attractiveness. Dating apps are utterly broken. Don't do that to yourself, or to anyone. Meeting women in the Real World through common acquaintances. That's where the moat is.
  - lifestyleguru 2y ago
    Can confirm from personal experience. Do not even think of installing Tinder as a male with intention not to pay. Tinder with platinum is frustrating enough for a male. In revenge, every relationship initiated with gold and platinum I threw out to the bin after some sex.
    - j1elo 2y ago
      The article says it all: paying is the losing strategy. > Likes received [by men] have a positive impact, but it is very light, which is a good thing from a monetization standpoint (you can make guys pay and not show them to anyone; they will keep paying, just a bit less than if they received likes. [...]) I can confirm. Payed once for a whole year, and got absolutely buried. Went from a decent rate of interactions to 2~3 likes (not matches) per week. And after the premium period ended, exactly on that same day, the previous rate of likes was restored! That's how I know they were intentionally not showing my profile around to other users. Taking revenge on other users because of the predatory design of a dating app is, sincerely, disingenuous, childish and even irresponsible. Just stop using the bad product and try to cultivate real connections with people out there.
  - missedthecue 2y ago
    Do you think if a non-profit open source dating app existed, with a sizable userbase, results would be different for the average guy? People are quick to blame the greedy for profit business model, and I'm sure that has something to do with it, but with women swiping left on 95% of profiles (according to the article) it's hard to imagine designing a dating app that changes the math meaningfully. No matter the business model, you're not likely to turn that 95% into 75% or 50%.
    - j1elo 2y ago
      I don't think so, because there are more factors. For example, that women are extremely much more picky in apps than in real life. That's something that a FOSS product wouldn't solve, because it's a behavioral thing.
  - 2y ago
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
Under 6'2".

giacomoforte 2y ago

Find a poor girl. You are probably going for the ones with a ton of options. Get out of your bubble.

bradlys 2y ago
I’m not interested in charity or exploitation.
- giacomoforte 2y ago
  A girl who started off at the same level as you, will appreciate what you have accomplished. A girl who grew up well off won't.
  - bradlys 2y ago
    I’ve experimented with both. Neither really values where you come from and what you’ve accomplished. What they care about is what you’re going to do for them. In my case, I just happen to care about what they’ll do back because I’m not interested in super imbalanced relationships.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      You’re judging “balance in a relationship” by how much money you both make? You said earlier you are making $700K. Would you not date a teacher making $70K?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

Synaesthesia 2y ago

I think the problem with apps is they emphasise looks, when women are also attracted to confidence, which is something you can work on.

bradlys 2y ago
I think we’re going through a cultural shift. Looks is becoming the most important thing across the board. Most people won’t meet your partner but they’ll see them on social media. You need someone you feel proud about and secure of. On top of this, women are becoming more superficial than in previous years due to relationships being luxuries. If a man was a solid laborer, upstanding citizen, and otherwise a dedicated family man - he would’ve done alright in certain periods of our history. But now, that’s not really that attractive. Women are much more susceptible to shifting societal trends. You can see this around the world. As women become more online, marriage rates plummet. We’re moving further and further away from meeting your partners in real life. It’s going to be an uncommon way to meet in the future and what we will find isn’t that everyone just meets online - it’s that most people refuse to be together overall.

nooron 2y ago

Hey, I am a man who got work that is probably like what you are getting. Email is in bio if you want to talk a little.

throwaway314155 2y ago

This is some entitled, toxic bullshit. edit: This was harsh and inaccurate. I apologize.

beeflet 2y ago
I think most people feel entitled to a romantic relationship in their life, and they're going to do whatever they need to do to attain that, regardless of whether or not you think it's "entitled".
- throwaway314155 2y ago
  You're not entitled to a relationship is the fact of the matter. It should be treated with respect and not as something you are owed. You know why? Because the man or woman on the other end of it is a person with a whole lived experience, feelings and capacity for love. They deserve better than some bitter resentment at never getting something you were "owed by destiny".
  - beeflet 2y ago
    I think pretty much everyone deserves to be in a relationship for the same reason I think everyone deserves to learn how to ride a bicycle, or read a book, or learn to swim or have a friend or get a job. It is simply an experience that I think everyone should experience at least once in their life. People aren't entitled to a relationship? In what sense? Legally? sure. The fact of the matter is that on a basic level, most people expect to find love in their life. And whatever institution that interrupts most people from achieving normal life goals like having a decent-paying job and having a normal relationship will either be torn down or will tear down society with it, whether it's AI automation of jobs or dating apps or whatever. I am also a human being with an entire lived experience, and I am done with people like you belittling me. I have my own goals, and I am going to achieve them regardless of what people like you think. Is that entitled? So what? A lot of my difficulty in dating has been building my confidence and overcoming this notion that I don't deserve anything instilled in me by people like you. I am not resentful or bitter, but I am angry at people like you for misrepresenting my beliefs and presenting your own perspective as "fact", when in fact you are the minority. Most people do feel entitled to a relationship, whether or not they say so.

scarface_74 2y ago

> Women don’t need men anymore in the developed world. Men are luxury goods and women are completely happy to live without. A man isn’t needed but merely wanted and only wanted if he fits a very particular set of criteria. I’m not accusing you of being an incel (I’m really not trying to be sarcastic). But this has some real incel vibes. Are you a 2 only trying to date 10s? And I am not looking down from you from on high. I’m not wealthy. I’m doing okay. I’m definitely not tall. In my younger dating days I was in great shape (a part time fitness instructor) and if I weren’t out there as one of the few straight men without any feminine tendencies (is that a PC thing to say?) in a industry mostly with women and gay men, I wouldn’t have fared as well. But I wasn’t 5 foot 4 trying to step to a 5 foot 10 supermodel.

lmm 2y ago
They probably are literally involuntarily celibate. Women in the west are choosing, quite reasonably, to hook up with the top 20% of men and ignore the rest. I'm not saying that as a blame thing - I don't blame them, I might make the same choice in their position. But the result is that the bottom 80% of men have practically no options - and no, lowering their standards doesn't help, it's not a problem of having potential partners they don't want, it's a problem of not having potential partners at all. I wish we could at least be honest about this rather than victim-blaming.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  61% of women in the US are married or cohabitating and that doesn’t include those who are dating. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-share-of-u-s-adults-are-living-without-a-spouse-or-partner/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-... Yes I know that not all women are heterosexual. But I also didn’t include women who are in a heterosexual relationship but are not living with someone. It’s statistically impossible for only 20% of the men to be in a relationship or having sex.
  - strix_varius 2y ago
    While the previous commenter's numbers are exaggerated, the data from articles like this (and a decade ago, from okcupid), consistently shows stark asymmetry between the dating preferences of men and women - to the disadvantage of men in the "bottom" 50%. Before marrying, most of those 61% of women dated other men, and likely with a strong skew towards the top 20% as claimed.

aianus 2y ago

Get a passport. You only have one life.