4 ms·

Yet better privacy protections than we in the States enjoy.

DocTomoe 2y ago
The EU in a nutshell: You can't have nice things, but on the bright side Google/Apple/Facebook won't know what you had for dinner. Now give us your whole financial transaction and travel history, so we can share it with the US, a hostile country, citizen!
- fredoliveira 2y ago
  Can we get some sources that back the narrative for that last sentence?
  - DocTomoe 2y ago
    EU bending backwards to meet US demands to access non-US-related traveller records: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-us-agreement-on-airline-passenger-name-record-data.html?fromSummary=32 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-us-agr... Yes, it only affects airlines that have connections to the US. But if I book Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tokyo, the PNR will still be sent to the US, for Lufthansa has connections to the US. Yes, there are 'safeguards' in there, to shackle the DHS to be responsible with the data - but who seriously thinks the data, once in US hands, is used responsibly and only for the matters outlined in the treaty? The US has been less of a reliable partner for decades now. Oh, right. They won't do that for financial transactions, right? Right? https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement-between-the-european-union-and-the-united-states-on-the-transfer-of-financial-messaging-data.html?fromSummary=23 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement...
    - fredoliveira 2y ago
      > Yes, it only affects airlines that have connections to the US. But if I book Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tokyo, the PNR will still be sent to the US, for Lufthansa has connections to the US. Any proof of that claim? The agreement specifically mentions flights between the EU and the US, so any departure from that (like the scenario you describe) is unlawful, according to my own understanding.
      - DocTomoe 2y ago
        Where do you read this only affects flights between the EU and the US? Article 2.1 clearly states it is applicable to all EU airlines *operating* flights to or from the US. That does not mean they ONLY have to provide PNR FOR those flights Article 3 speaks about "Data in their (the airlines) reservation systems". There's no limitation to only US-related flights. The specific mention of flights to and from the US you are likely refer to is in the preamble, referencing a law the US set up prior.
    - csunbird 2y ago
      The financial transactions are also shared by the both sides, EU can also request data from US, as clearly stated in the document. Both document clearly define the uses cases that are applicable for the data sharing, and the second document linked by you also explicitly states that US has to put same effort to provide same capabilities to EU as well.
- oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
  The USA in a nutshell: We elected a President who tried to lead an armed insurrection but we'll never press criminal charges because we elected him President again. Sorry, but anything the EU has ever done pales in comparison with that.
  - DocTomoe 2y ago
    As an European, respectfully, I am not too interested in comparing the stability of my system of government with that of another country. I try to compare my circumstances to a better ideal, not a worse.
  - vixen99 2y ago
    You're right, no competition. Let's face it, your President is a loser who can't even manage a simple insurrection; no proper planning I guess. Fortunately not much bloodshed though the defending side did manage to shoot dead one unarmed female ‘warrior’.
  - linksnapzz 2y ago
    Of course. No EU president could lead an insurrection! The working group in Brussels charged with formalizing the insurrection guidelines to produce the right forms for the insurrectionists to apply for their mob permit...is currently stuck hammering out definitions between the Italian and Czech delegations. They hope the paperwork will be complete by 2053, which will allow an EU president to, hopefully, attempt some kind of coup (if everything is filled out correctly) sometime before 2060.
- theyinwhy 2y ago
  Genuinely curious: What are those nice things Europe cannot have?
  - DocTomoe 2y ago
    For starters, I am still waiting for Apple Intelligence to arrive on my phone. Reason given is "EU legislative concerns". Then there's the nontrivial number of especially local US news sources which now give me a cheerful "451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons" error code. Then there's the outright stupid stuff - like lightbulbs that do not cost 15 euros a piece (to save 'energy'), or drinking straws that do not dissolve in my coke within the first minute (to avoid 'disposable plastics'). There are hundreds of examples like that. The EU is a regulation juggernaut, and is making the world an actively worse place for everyone globally. See "Cookie Banners".
    - robin_reala 2y ago
      What are you talking about? Leaving aside your other random complaints that I don’t recognise, but can’t immediately link to, a basic lightbulb is less than €3 for a two-pack: https://www.ikea.com/de/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e14-250-lumen-chandelier-opal-white-30584034/ https://www.ikea.com/de/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e14-250-lumen...
      - cmenge 2y ago
        That's an LED though. I understood he was referring to incandescent light bulbs, which have been largely regulated out of the market. So you now need to get an "Edison light bulb" which circumvenes regulation but costs significantly more.
        naabb 2y ago
        Good, that's the point. Price out the products that are bad for the environment. They are still there if you want to contribute to the degradation of the environment

The EU in a nutshell: You can't have nice things, but on the bright side Google/Apple/Facebook won't know what you had for dinner. Now give us your whole financial transaction and travel history, so we can share it with the US, a hostile country, citizen!

fredoliveira 2y ago
Can we get some sources that back the narrative for that last sentence?
- DocTomoe 2y ago
  EU bending backwards to meet US demands to access non-US-related traveller records: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-us-agreement-on-airline-passenger-name-record-data.html?fromSummary=32 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-us-agr... Yes, it only affects airlines that have connections to the US. But if I book Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tokyo, the PNR will still be sent to the US, for Lufthansa has connections to the US. Yes, there are 'safeguards' in there, to shackle the DHS to be responsible with the data - but who seriously thinks the data, once in US hands, is used responsibly and only for the matters outlined in the treaty? The US has been less of a reliable partner for decades now. Oh, right. They won't do that for financial transactions, right? Right? https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement-between-the-european-union-and-the-united-states-on-the-transfer-of-financial-messaging-data.html?fromSummary=23 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement...
  - fredoliveira 2y ago
    > Yes, it only affects airlines that have connections to the US. But if I book Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tokyo, the PNR will still be sent to the US, for Lufthansa has connections to the US. Any proof of that claim? The agreement specifically mentions flights between the EU and the US, so any departure from that (like the scenario you describe) is unlawful, according to my own understanding.
    - DocTomoe 2y ago
      Where do you read this only affects flights between the EU and the US? Article 2.1 clearly states it is applicable to all EU airlines *operating* flights to or from the US. That does not mean they ONLY have to provide PNR FOR those flights Article 3 speaks about "Data in their (the airlines) reservation systems". There's no limitation to only US-related flights. The specific mention of flights to and from the US you are likely refer to is in the preamble, referencing a law the US set up prior.
  - csunbird 2y ago
    The financial transactions are also shared by the both sides, EU can also request data from US, as clearly stated in the document. Both document clearly define the uses cases that are applicable for the data sharing, and the second document linked by you also explicitly states that US has to put same effort to provide same capabilities to EU as well.
oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
The USA in a nutshell: We elected a President who tried to lead an armed insurrection but we'll never press criminal charges because we elected him President again. Sorry, but anything the EU has ever done pales in comparison with that.
- DocTomoe 2y ago
  As an European, respectfully, I am not too interested in comparing the stability of my system of government with that of another country. I try to compare my circumstances to a better ideal, not a worse.
- vixen99 2y ago
  You're right, no competition. Let's face it, your President is a loser who can't even manage a simple insurrection; no proper planning I guess. Fortunately not much bloodshed though the defending side did manage to shoot dead one unarmed female ‘warrior’.
- linksnapzz 2y ago
  Of course. No EU president could lead an insurrection! The working group in Brussels charged with formalizing the insurrection guidelines to produce the right forms for the insurrectionists to apply for their mob permit...is currently stuck hammering out definitions between the Italian and Czech delegations. They hope the paperwork will be complete by 2053, which will allow an EU president to, hopefully, attempt some kind of coup (if everything is filled out correctly) sometime before 2060.
theyinwhy 2y ago
Genuinely curious: What are those nice things Europe cannot have?
- DocTomoe 2y ago
  For starters, I am still waiting for Apple Intelligence to arrive on my phone. Reason given is "EU legislative concerns". Then there's the nontrivial number of especially local US news sources which now give me a cheerful "451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons" error code. Then there's the outright stupid stuff - like lightbulbs that do not cost 15 euros a piece (to save 'energy'), or drinking straws that do not dissolve in my coke within the first minute (to avoid 'disposable plastics'). There are hundreds of examples like that. The EU is a regulation juggernaut, and is making the world an actively worse place for everyone globally. See "Cookie Banners".
  - robin_reala 2y ago
    What are you talking about? Leaving aside your other random complaints that I don’t recognise, but can’t immediately link to, a basic lightbulb is less than €3 for a two-pack: https://www.ikea.com/de/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e14-250-lumen-chandelier-opal-white-30584034/ https://www.ikea.com/de/en/p/solhetta-led-bulb-e14-250-lumen...
    - cmenge 2y ago
      That's an LED though. I understood he was referring to incandescent light bulbs, which have been largely regulated out of the market. So you now need to get an "Edison light bulb" which circumvenes regulation but costs significantly more.
      - naabb 2y ago
        Good, that's the point. Price out the products that are bad for the environment. They are still there if you want to contribute to the degradation of the environment