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You are not a citizen and you don't vote in U.S. elections. It is irrelevant what you think and the U.S. government is not beholden to what you want.

jacobgkau 2y ago
I understand your sentiment as a fellow US citizen; it can get annoying how so many people globally take part in debates about our society. To be fair, it's not like we in the U.S. shouldn't be open to hearing ideas from others about how we could run our government better. God knows there's plenty of room for improvement. And if I were to go to another country and see things that don't make sense to me, I'd understand they aren't going to just change anything immediately on my account, but I'd also appreciate having my thoughts considered by the people there. His problem is more that he seems to believe his (and all others') country's ID system is somehow impervious to abuse (despite being imperfect by his own admission). The more centralized things are, the less you have to hack to do a takeover. The less centralized things are, the easier it is to accumulate supporting evidence for a takeover. It's a necessarily complicated system that has certain holes, and the main thing that would've helped in this case was more benefit of the doubt for the person who was up against a lot of documentation.
- Jolter 2y ago
  I appreciate that you’re defending my right to voice my opinion. That said, you’re contradicting yourself: am I saying my country’s system is impervious to abuse, or am I admitting that it is not? My point is not that a central database of people makes identity theft a thing. My point is that by not having one (or any), you are making it a lot easier than it has to be. In one country, this kind of abuse of identity happens all the time, and in others, it is exceedingly rare. Anyone should be able to draw their own conclusions from that. I’m seeing a statistic online that says “33% of Americans Faced Some Form of Identity Theft at Some Point in Their Lives” — not sure if that’s accurate but it’s a scary number!
  - kelnos 2y ago
    As a counterexample, another poster upthread pointed out that Japan has these kinds of registries, but identity fraud is rampant there. ID databases don't solve identity fraud.
    - Jolter 2y ago
      Well the Japanese one apparently doesn’t. But surely you see how it would be a logical fallacy to discount a type of system because of one faulty implementation?
      - fc417fc802 2y ago
        [dead]
      - jacobgkau 2y ago
        I think it's on you to make the logical connection between the type of system and positive results at this point. (And no, your anecdotes and general vibes don't count.)
  - jacobgkau 2y ago
    > That said, you’re contradicting yourself: am I saying my country’s system is impervious to abuse, or am I admitting that it is not? That's not me contradicting myself, it's literally quoting you contradicting yourself. Because you've made both of those arguments. At this point, you seem to have backed off basically all of your claims about your system actually being better, leaving me with the question of what point you're trying to make at all. > not sure if that’s accurate but it’s a scary number! Boy, you sound like you'd be a very educated voter, LOL. I Googled "scandanavian id fraud rate" and got 36% for Finland and 45% for Sweden out of one of the top results. So what exactly are you on about?

jacobgkau 2y ago

I understand your sentiment as a fellow US citizen; it can get annoying how so many people globally take part in debates about our society. To be fair, it's not like we in the U.S. shouldn't be open to hearing ideas from others about how we could run our government better. God knows there's plenty of room for improvement. And if I were to go to another country and see things that don't make sense to me, I'd understand they aren't going to just change anything immediately on my account, but I'd also appreciate having my thoughts considered by the people there. His problem is more that he seems to believe his (and all others') country's ID system is somehow impervious to abuse (despite being imperfect by his own admission). The more centralized things are, the less you have to hack to do a takeover. The less centralized things are, the easier it is to accumulate supporting evidence for a takeover. It's a necessarily complicated system that has certain holes, and the main thing that would've helped in this case was more benefit of the doubt for the person who was up against a lot of documentation.

Jolter 2y ago
I appreciate that you’re defending my right to voice my opinion. That said, you’re contradicting yourself: am I saying my country’s system is impervious to abuse, or am I admitting that it is not? My point is not that a central database of people makes identity theft a thing. My point is that by not having one (or any), you are making it a lot easier than it has to be. In one country, this kind of abuse of identity happens all the time, and in others, it is exceedingly rare. Anyone should be able to draw their own conclusions from that. I’m seeing a statistic online that says “33% of Americans Faced Some Form of Identity Theft at Some Point in Their Lives” — not sure if that’s accurate but it’s a scary number!
- kelnos 2y ago
  As a counterexample, another poster upthread pointed out that Japan has these kinds of registries, but identity fraud is rampant there. ID databases don't solve identity fraud.
  - Jolter 2y ago
    Well the Japanese one apparently doesn’t. But surely you see how it would be a logical fallacy to discount a type of system because of one faulty implementation?
    - fc417fc802 2y ago
      [dead]
    - jacobgkau 2y ago
      I think it's on you to make the logical connection between the type of system and positive results at this point. (And no, your anecdotes and general vibes don't count.)
- jacobgkau 2y ago
  > That said, you’re contradicting yourself: am I saying my country’s system is impervious to abuse, or am I admitting that it is not? That's not me contradicting myself, it's literally quoting you contradicting yourself. Because you've made both of those arguments. At this point, you seem to have backed off basically all of your claims about your system actually being better, leaving me with the question of what point you're trying to make at all. > not sure if that’s accurate but it’s a scary number! Boy, you sound like you'd be a very educated voter, LOL. I Googled "scandanavian id fraud rate" and got 36% for Finland and 45% for Sweden out of one of the top results. So what exactly are you on about?