6 ms·

how is someone’s age relevant? Is a 55 y.o. Software engineer who spent 20 years in a bureaucratic wheel any better than a bright 20yo mind? They both suck in

how is someone’s age relevant? Is a 55 y.o. Software engineer who spent 20 years in a bureaucratic wheel any better than a bright 20yo mind? They both suck in a different way! Writing an entire article with ageism as a center piece is truly pinnacle of American journalism

PeeMcGee 2y ago
When they're as young as literally 19 years old, then it must be the case that they lack the appropriate experience.
- user32489318 2y ago
  I’m not disagreeing with you but let’s ask the question “experience for what”? Is it making a couple of dashboards, extract data from legacy systems into something more queryable, or generating a couple of expense reports? Or will they be making actual significant decisions affecting millions? How likely would that be?
  - PeeMcGee 2y ago
    Regardless, they seemingly have access to tons of financial data that they are basing brash decisions on with zero context. That combined with the fact they are reporting to a manchild that is demonstrably stupid as shit when it comes to "improving" such systems (see Twitter and the play by play of his first days there). It takes tenure to know what sorts of discretion are required when reporting to such an extremely senior "leader", and to not get caught up in the hype of being involved in something. (edit: added last sentence)
9283409232 2y ago
Experience is an important teacher and a 19 year old doesn't have it.
kelnos 2y ago
I find it hard to believe that any 19-22 year old would have the appropriate level of experience to handle this responsibility. Sure, a 55 year old also may not have the appropriate responsibility, but at least it's reasonable to expect that they could.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  Pretty sure these whiz kids engineers are writing software to analyze things like where all the money goes. Decisions will ultimately be made and implemented by the appropriate authorities, of course.
  - indoordin0saur 2y ago
    Agree. It seems largely they are just writing code to make sense of the enormous amount of data and unravel the tangled mess that is the US federal budget.
    - drawkward 2y ago
      Right, 5 guys are gonna untangle what you allege is generations of tangled mess. Got it.
    - kccoder 2y ago
      How do you know that they are largely writing code? Is that because the appropriate oversight has indicated as such? What visibility do any of us have to what they are doing? And why should we trust any result they produce? The lack of critical thinking in this entire comment section is breathtaking?
      - BurningFrog 2y ago
        Why would you hire top software engineers to do anything else than build software systems?
        deleted 2y ago
soared 2y ago
None of them have seemingly ever held more than 1 full time job. Age is discussed, but experience is clearly lacking. Your argument skips over that entirely.
tgv 2y ago
19 year olds are much more malleable. They can be fanatic, and follow orders easily. They aren't educated. They have a limited grasp of morality, and can't oversee the consequences of their actions. They have no other obligation in life than to this holy task. That's why it's relevant.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kdmtctl 2y ago
  This is exactly the reason why they were selected.
  - dm270 2y ago
    Exactly. They sure are brilliant. But there are 30+ year old brilliant people as well…
- fastball 2y ago
  Somewhat ironic to claim a "limited grasp of morality" and a lack of education when the instutions doing said education have been preaching moral relativism for a while now.
  - tgv 2y ago
    If you'd said cultural relativism, yes, some institutions (in particular sociology and the like) did preach that, but moral relativism? Those institutions certainly preached morality. However, engineering schools have not been affected, AFAIK.
grumple 2y ago
Experience - which comes with age - is absolutely critical in all intellectual pursuits, including programming, government, and just about everything else. Experts and lifetime learners learn more each day. A 20 year old simply has not had the time to be exposed to the same breadth or depth of ideas, or to critique them seriously. Younger people are also far more vulnerable to hormonal impulses, manipulation, and more likely to have been exposed to a much more limited world view. I can’t imagine anyone but insufferably arrogant - and really fucking wrong - young people making an argument to the contrary. Not that there aren’t benefits to youth - being unburdened by complexity, ignorant enough to be especially bold - but these aren’t actually that useful. And we have good evidence to support that; older founders do better, for example: https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/younger-older-tech-entrepreneurs https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/younger-old...
thom 2y ago
I agree. Fascism is fascism whether it’s a teenage Octavian, Agrippa or a groyper. Underestimate them at your peril.
Buttons840 2y ago
The age of one person isn't that relevant, you're right about that. The average age of an entire "agency"[0] is relevant though. [0]: DOGE may not technically be an "agency", but whatever the case, they have and are acting with power equal to that of an agency.
zelphirkalt 2y ago
I think it is more about how Musk needs to surround himself with young easily impressed and gullible minds, because anyone else would probably see through him all day. These young guys are probably afraid to speak out against him, or are sucking it aaaaall up as ordered by Musk. He will have chosen who gets to tag along.
rich_sasha 2y ago
With age comes life experience and an appreciation that it's hard to make things better, and breaking them is rarely good. Similarly, it is easier to convince an impressionable 19yo to do reckless and possibly illegal things. It doesn't strike me as totally irrelevant.
mrkeen 2y ago
20yos with max 2 weeks of experience in the job - given the inauguration date.
Sparkle-san 2y ago
Because there's a baseline age to have the necessary skills, experience, and cognitive development to be able to accomplish the task.
alfalfasprout 2y ago
Their experience is relevant. If they're being brought into build data analysis systems to make sense of data of various organizations there's zero chance they've worked on a project of that scale let alone do they understand all the gotchas you need to deal with working on a project of that scale. You're offering a completely false dichotomy here.
- pizzafeelsright 2y ago
  Yet it is encouraged that everyone votes (distributed system affecting the lives of many) and are given weapons of war to kill people (military, cops). We have a minimum age on the Presidency. They work at the discretion of their employers.
TrackerFF 2y ago
Let's face this head-on. Not all 20-year olds are mature. No mater how bright they might be when it comes to topics in STEM. Their minds haven't matured enough, especially the male mind. They do immature shit because there's prestige dangling in-front of them, or because they've been convinces by Musk et. al. that this is the cause to fight for. There's a reason organized crime preys on young people. They're malleable, do what they're told, blindly ambitious, and want to please their superiors at all costs.
jxramos 2y ago
good quip over here https://x.com/pmarca/status/1887003073530286569 https://x.com/pmarca/status/1887003073530286569

PeeMcGee 2y ago

When they're as young as literally 19 years old, then it must be the case that they lack the appropriate experience.

user32489318 2y ago
I’m not disagreeing with you but let’s ask the question “experience for what”? Is it making a couple of dashboards, extract data from legacy systems into something more queryable, or generating a couple of expense reports? Or will they be making actual significant decisions affecting millions? How likely would that be?
- PeeMcGee 2y ago
  Regardless, they seemingly have access to tons of financial data that they are basing brash decisions on with zero context. That combined with the fact they are reporting to a manchild that is demonstrably stupid as shit when it comes to "improving" such systems (see Twitter and the play by play of his first days there). It takes tenure to know what sorts of discretion are required when reporting to such an extremely senior "leader", and to not get caught up in the hype of being involved in something. (edit: added last sentence)

9283409232 2y ago

Experience is an important teacher and a 19 year old doesn't have it.

kelnos 2y ago

I find it hard to believe that any 19-22 year old would have the appropriate level of experience to handle this responsibility. Sure, a 55 year old also may not have the appropriate responsibility, but at least it's reasonable to expect that they could.

BurningFrog 2y ago
Pretty sure these whiz kids engineers are writing software to analyze things like where all the money goes. Decisions will ultimately be made and implemented by the appropriate authorities, of course.
- indoordin0saur 2y ago
  Agree. It seems largely they are just writing code to make sense of the enormous amount of data and unravel the tangled mess that is the US federal budget.
  - drawkward 2y ago
    Right, 5 guys are gonna untangle what you allege is generations of tangled mess. Got it.
  - kccoder 2y ago
    How do you know that they are largely writing code? Is that because the appropriate oversight has indicated as such? What visibility do any of us have to what they are doing? And why should we trust any result they produce? The lack of critical thinking in this entire comment section is breathtaking?
    - BurningFrog 2y ago
      Why would you hire top software engineers to do anything else than build software systems?
      - deleted 2y ago

soared 2y ago

None of them have seemingly ever held more than 1 full time job. Age is discussed, but experience is clearly lacking. Your argument skips over that entirely.

tgv 2y ago

19 year olds are much more malleable. They can be fanatic, and follow orders easily. They aren't educated. They have a limited grasp of morality, and can't oversee the consequences of their actions. They have no other obligation in life than to this holy task. That's why it's relevant.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kdmtctl 2y ago
This is exactly the reason why they were selected.
- dm270 2y ago
  Exactly. They sure are brilliant. But there are 30+ year old brilliant people as well…
fastball 2y ago
Somewhat ironic to claim a "limited grasp of morality" and a lack of education when the instutions doing said education have been preaching moral relativism for a while now.
- tgv 2y ago
  If you'd said cultural relativism, yes, some institutions (in particular sociology and the like) did preach that, but moral relativism? Those institutions certainly preached morality. However, engineering schools have not been affected, AFAIK.

grumple 2y ago

Experience - which comes with age - is absolutely critical in all intellectual pursuits, including programming, government, and just about everything else. Experts and lifetime learners learn more each day. A 20 year old simply has not had the time to be exposed to the same breadth or depth of ideas, or to critique them seriously. Younger people are also far more vulnerable to hormonal impulses, manipulation, and more likely to have been exposed to a much more limited world view. I can’t imagine anyone but insufferably arrogant - and really fucking wrong - young people making an argument to the contrary. Not that there aren’t benefits to youth - being unburdened by complexity, ignorant enough to be especially bold - but these aren’t actually that useful. And we have good evidence to support that; older founders do better, for example: https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/younger-older-tech-entrepreneurs https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/younger-old...

thom 2y ago

I agree. Fascism is fascism whether it’s a teenage Octavian, Agrippa or a groyper. Underestimate them at your peril.

Buttons840 2y ago

The age of one person isn't that relevant, you're right about that. The average age of an entire "agency"[0] is relevant though. [0]: DOGE may not technically be an "agency", but whatever the case, they have and are acting with power equal to that of an agency.

zelphirkalt 2y ago

I think it is more about how Musk needs to surround himself with young easily impressed and gullible minds, because anyone else would probably see through him all day. These young guys are probably afraid to speak out against him, or are sucking it aaaaall up as ordered by Musk. He will have chosen who gets to tag along.

rich_sasha 2y ago

With age comes life experience and an appreciation that it's hard to make things better, and breaking them is rarely good. Similarly, it is easier to convince an impressionable 19yo to do reckless and possibly illegal things. It doesn't strike me as totally irrelevant.

mrkeen 2y ago

20yos with max 2 weeks of experience in the job - given the inauguration date.

Sparkle-san 2y ago

Because there's a baseline age to have the necessary skills, experience, and cognitive development to be able to accomplish the task.

alfalfasprout 2y ago

Their experience is relevant. If they're being brought into build data analysis systems to make sense of data of various organizations there's zero chance they've worked on a project of that scale let alone do they understand all the gotchas you need to deal with working on a project of that scale. You're offering a completely false dichotomy here.

pizzafeelsright 2y ago
Yet it is encouraged that everyone votes (distributed system affecting the lives of many) and are given weapons of war to kill people (military, cops). We have a minimum age on the Presidency. They work at the discretion of their employers.

TrackerFF 2y ago

Let's face this head-on. Not all 20-year olds are mature. No mater how bright they might be when it comes to topics in STEM. Their minds haven't matured enough, especially the male mind. They do immature shit because there's prestige dangling in-front of them, or because they've been convinces by Musk et. al. that this is the cause to fight for. There's a reason organized crime preys on young people. They're malleable, do what they're told, blindly ambitious, and want to please their superiors at all costs.

jxramos 2y ago

good quip over here https://x.com/pmarca/status/1887003073530286569 https://x.com/pmarca/status/1887003073530286569