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What would a "canonical registry" include? Like, biometrics of every citizen? I am from a european country, and when I had to renew my id card I had to prove m

What would a "canonical registry" include? Like, biometrics of every citizen? I am from a european country, and when I had to renew my id card I had to prove my identity through answering questions about a part of my family tree my immediate family and I have been no-contact since ever. I had no idea about the names of these people, and the police officer was visibly frustrated. Nothing bad happened in the end but I can imagine if I was acting weird it could have had, because the whole id process was actually a failure. My experience with other european countries is not much different either in terms of the process, likeprevious residence addresses, people you live with or similar info they have on you, most of which is not very private. Or a witness to testify which actually is the easiest. That's nothing that would have prevented a case like this on its own, without further investigations.

Jolter 2y ago
Well, it’s not mandatory to take out a passport or ID card anywhere that I’m aware. And perhaps a photo ID database would have been as far as I’d be willing to stretch when it comes to storing biometrics. But you do realize that even the government of each state does not know who lives at what address? The only exception being around the time of each census. It’s a miracle people can get their mail in the US (and I know a whole neighborhood on Hawaii that can’t!)
- rtkwe 2y ago
  > It’s a miracle people can get their mail in the US (and I know a whole neighborhood on Hawaii that can’t!) Only when you look at it as sending to a person. Really what you do is send it to an address the post office doesn't get a damn what you put above the street address, they just deliver it to the specified location.
  - Jolter 2y ago
    Yeah, that's how a post office has to operate under those circumstances. It seems to work decently, for the most part. In my country (Sweden), the post office is able to forward mail to your new address after you move, because they can look up your address in the public registry. (Of course, they charge a fee for this but it's quite small.)
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      They can and do do that in the US but only for a limited time and you have to tell them your old address and new address. It's essentially a bridge for you to update everyone who might only rarely send you mail. I still get mail for the previous owner more than 4 years after buying my house. (This is confirmed by sending a postcard you either enter a code to complete the redirect or send back in I can't remember exactly I've done it twice in my whole life.) https://moversguide.usps.com/mgo/mail-forwarding-instructions https://moversguide.usps.com/mgo/mail-forwarding-instruction...
    - giantg2 2y ago
      USPS offers a search service to look up someone's current address.
  - giantg2 2y ago
    Technically you can just do name and zip code and it will get delivered assuming you've had other mail delivered or a change of address filed.
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      Never tried that or had something sent to me that way. Seems like it'd succeed or fail randomly based on the local post office when doing the sortation to individual house bundles.
- jacobgkau 2y ago
  > But you do realize that even the government of each state does not know who lives at what address? Do you know that our voter registration, which is organized by state and ultimately administered at the county level, does include that information? Also, have you considered how a mapping to an address would have helped in this case between two homeless people? > It’s a miracle people can get their mail in the US (and I know a whole neighborhood on Hawaii that can’t!) Did a quick web search because this seemed dubious. I think you're referring to a neighborhood that uses PO boxes. They absolutely can and do still "get their mail," they just need to go down the street for it instead of having it dropped 10 feet away from their front door. Less convenient, but not as if the system isn't there, and it would be trivial to have a mail carrier fill in that last half-mile if it made since for that community.
  - ajdlinux 2y ago
    > Do you know that our voter registration, which is organized by state and ultimately administered at the county level, does include that information? If you're a citizen, and you're correctly registered to vote. Additionally, for various reasons, US voter register quality is relatively poor - one study estimates that there's 6.1 million voters who have their name registered in more than one state (https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/double-registration-and-strategic-voting-across-state-lines https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/double-registration-and-strat...).
  - Jolter 2y ago
    Hey, you know another system that’s broken? The US voting system. Because you can’t know for sure who is entitled to vote if you don’t know who lives in your country. You’re trying to put the cart before the horse with this argument. A voter registry under the current US system is not going to get higher quality data than the other existing government databases; in other words, it’s equally susceptible to fraud and abuse because it relies on weak authentication measures like phone bills or birth certificates.
  - Jolter 2y ago
    Yeah they have to pick up their mail a few miles down the road at a private business which runs their PO boxes. I don’t that’s an acceptable level of service but to each their own, I guess…
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
stanac 2y ago
In my country first government issued id is done in the presence of a parent/guardian at the age between 16 and 18. Police before issuing the id will take your fingerprints and you can replace id (if stolen, lost, expired) with a fingerprint only. No questions and no witnesses necessary.
- kelnos 2y ago
  What happens if you lose your fingerprints in some way? Deep burns on your fingers can permanently change your fingerprints. What if you are in an accident and both hands or arms have to be amputated? Could a bad actor put some sort of coating or prosthetic on their fingers to successfully impersonate someone else? Ugh, biometrics...
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    That's a valid concern, but only for a rather infinitesimal minority of people. Pretty much the definition of a "corner case", so rather irrelevant on the whole.
  - stanac 2y ago
    You can for example sing a contract with someone without notarizing it, but you need two witnesses for contract to be valid/accepted by the legal system. I guess something like this would resolve the situation. Two persons to confirm your identity.

Jolter 2y ago

Well, it’s not mandatory to take out a passport or ID card anywhere that I’m aware. And perhaps a photo ID database would have been as far as I’d be willing to stretch when it comes to storing biometrics. But you do realize that even the government of each state does not know who lives at what address? The only exception being around the time of each census. It’s a miracle people can get their mail in the US (and I know a whole neighborhood on Hawaii that can’t!)

rtkwe 2y ago
> It’s a miracle people can get their mail in the US (and I know a whole neighborhood on Hawaii that can’t!) Only when you look at it as sending to a person. Really what you do is send it to an address the post office doesn't get a damn what you put above the street address, they just deliver it to the specified location.
- Jolter 2y ago
  Yeah, that's how a post office has to operate under those circumstances. It seems to work decently, for the most part. In my country (Sweden), the post office is able to forward mail to your new address after you move, because they can look up your address in the public registry. (Of course, they charge a fee for this but it's quite small.)
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    They can and do do that in the US but only for a limited time and you have to tell them your old address and new address. It's essentially a bridge for you to update everyone who might only rarely send you mail. I still get mail for the previous owner more than 4 years after buying my house. (This is confirmed by sending a postcard you either enter a code to complete the redirect or send back in I can't remember exactly I've done it twice in my whole life.) https://moversguide.usps.com/mgo/mail-forwarding-instructions https://moversguide.usps.com/mgo/mail-forwarding-instruction...
  - giantg2 2y ago
    USPS offers a search service to look up someone's current address.
- giantg2 2y ago
  Technically you can just do name and zip code and it will get delivered assuming you've had other mail delivered or a change of address filed.
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    Never tried that or had something sent to me that way. Seems like it'd succeed or fail randomly based on the local post office when doing the sortation to individual house bundles.
jacobgkau 2y ago
> But you do realize that even the government of each state does not know who lives at what address? Do you know that our voter registration, which is organized by state and ultimately administered at the county level, does include that information? Also, have you considered how a mapping to an address would have helped in this case between two homeless people? > It’s a miracle people can get their mail in the US (and I know a whole neighborhood on Hawaii that can’t!) Did a quick web search because this seemed dubious. I think you're referring to a neighborhood that uses PO boxes. They absolutely can and do still "get their mail," they just need to go down the street for it instead of having it dropped 10 feet away from their front door. Less convenient, but not as if the system isn't there, and it would be trivial to have a mail carrier fill in that last half-mile if it made since for that community.
- ajdlinux 2y ago
  > Do you know that our voter registration, which is organized by state and ultimately administered at the county level, does include that information? If you're a citizen, and you're correctly registered to vote. Additionally, for various reasons, US voter register quality is relatively poor - one study estimates that there's 6.1 million voters who have their name registered in more than one state (https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/double-registration-and-strategic-voting-across-state-lines https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/double-registration-and-strat...).
- Jolter 2y ago
  Hey, you know another system that’s broken? The US voting system. Because you can’t know for sure who is entitled to vote if you don’t know who lives in your country. You’re trying to put the cart before the horse with this argument. A voter registry under the current US system is not going to get higher quality data than the other existing government databases; in other words, it’s equally susceptible to fraud and abuse because it relies on weak authentication measures like phone bills or birth certificates.
- Jolter 2y ago
  Yeah they have to pick up their mail a few miles down the road at a private business which runs their PO boxes. I don’t that’s an acceptable level of service but to each their own, I guess…
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

stanac 2y ago

In my country first government issued id is done in the presence of a parent/guardian at the age between 16 and 18. Police before issuing the id will take your fingerprints and you can replace id (if stolen, lost, expired) with a fingerprint only. No questions and no witnesses necessary.

kelnos 2y ago
What happens if you lose your fingerprints in some way? Deep burns on your fingers can permanently change your fingerprints. What if you are in an accident and both hands or arms have to be amputated? Could a bad actor put some sort of coating or prosthetic on their fingers to successfully impersonate someone else? Ugh, biometrics...
- CRConrad 2y ago
  That's a valid concern, but only for a rather infinitesimal minority of people. Pretty much the definition of a "corner case", so rather irrelevant on the whole.
- stanac 2y ago
  You can for example sing a contract with someone without notarizing it, but you need two witnesses for contract to be valid/accepted by the legal system. I guess something like this would resolve the situation. Two persons to confirm your identity.