4 ms·

Fortunately the free market takes care of this and there are plenty of other EV's consumers may purchase.

jm4 2y ago
Is it a free market when Musk has unfettered access to the inner workings of the U.S. government? He just shut down an entire agency with a tweet. He is in a position to effect policies that favor him and his companies. How can anyone else compete fairly in that environment?
- entropicdrifter 2y ago
  And that's why his stocks are doing fine despite him having alienated a huge chunk of the world with his fascist salutes. Edit for clarity: the "Roman" in "Roman salute" is based on the idea that the ancient Romans did this salute. Historians have indicated there is no evidence to support this idea. The salute was popularized by the Italian Fascists, who also popularized the idea that it hearkened back to the Romans, which based on modern evidence appears to have been a fabricated narrative. Hitler liked it so he adopted it for the Nazis too. It's a fascist salute, always has been.
  - Dracophoenix 2y ago
    >It's a fascist salute, always has been. Say what one will about Musk, but the salute itself has existed long before Fascism and Nazism. Look up the Bellamy Salute. Much like the swastika and the fasces, the so-called Roman salute does not originate or derive its meaning from the culture or ideology to which it is attributed. The belief that such a salute has always been fascistic, however, is no better than the mythic history concocted for it. Such claims only serve to legitimate the perception that the progenitors and proponents of these ideologies were unique and ingenious. They were not. As with the then-nascent propaganda/advertising industry, they plundered and mangled whatever symbols that could adopt for their own means and purposes.
    - basementcat 2y ago
      The Bellamy Salute was similar but not exactly the same. Im sure that if Elon's "gesture" connotes no special meaning, there would be no problem with you making the gesture before your colleagues and customers.
    - Zigurd 2y ago
      This is the very essence of pedantic. Do it at work, or in public. In the current context, the meaning, which you would discover if you tried it, is unambiguous. FAFO.
- basementcat 2y ago
  An electoral majority of voters agree that handing him influence over federal government operations was better than the alternative. I am not aware of any widespread "regret" by voters over this issue; please correct me if I'm mistaken.
  - jm4 2y ago
    What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about free market with regards to EVs and I’m saying there isn’t one due to Musk’s influence in the U.S. government. Whether or not voters supported that or continue to support it is beside the point.
  - yellowapple 2y ago
    He was appointed, not elected. Precisely zero voters agreed upon any such thing.
  - jfengel 2y ago
    You're not mistaken. For those voters who chose him, this is all widely popular. There is surely some "regret" somewhere, but that's true of any election once it's over. There is good reason to think that the leopards will start eating their faces eventually, but for the moment the leopards are mostly eating the faces they were sent to eat.
- basementcat 2y ago
  An interesting theory that a colleague proposed to me recently is that it is indeed consistent with free market principles for monopolistic entities to emerge and influence public policy. Consumers presumably think very hard about every purchasing decision weighing both economic value proposition (are these bananas cheaper than those bananas) as well as social signaling (should I buy a beer that has an advertisement with a trans person). If they want a business to have more political influence, they will buy more of their products and services. Therefore operators of the business have a fiduciary duty to shareholders and customers to exert as much influence over public policy as possible.

jm4 2y ago

Is it a free market when Musk has unfettered access to the inner workings of the U.S. government? He just shut down an entire agency with a tweet. He is in a position to effect policies that favor him and his companies. How can anyone else compete fairly in that environment?

entropicdrifter 2y ago
And that's why his stocks are doing fine despite him having alienated a huge chunk of the world with his fascist salutes. Edit for clarity: the "Roman" in "Roman salute" is based on the idea that the ancient Romans did this salute. Historians have indicated there is no evidence to support this idea. The salute was popularized by the Italian Fascists, who also popularized the idea that it hearkened back to the Romans, which based on modern evidence appears to have been a fabricated narrative. Hitler liked it so he adopted it for the Nazis too. It's a fascist salute, always has been.
- Dracophoenix 2y ago
  >It's a fascist salute, always has been. Say what one will about Musk, but the salute itself has existed long before Fascism and Nazism. Look up the Bellamy Salute. Much like the swastika and the fasces, the so-called Roman salute does not originate or derive its meaning from the culture or ideology to which it is attributed. The belief that such a salute has always been fascistic, however, is no better than the mythic history concocted for it. Such claims only serve to legitimate the perception that the progenitors and proponents of these ideologies were unique and ingenious. They were not. As with the then-nascent propaganda/advertising industry, they plundered and mangled whatever symbols that could adopt for their own means and purposes.
  - basementcat 2y ago
    The Bellamy Salute was similar but not exactly the same. Im sure that if Elon's "gesture" connotes no special meaning, there would be no problem with you making the gesture before your colleagues and customers.
  - Zigurd 2y ago
    This is the very essence of pedantic. Do it at work, or in public. In the current context, the meaning, which you would discover if you tried it, is unambiguous. FAFO.
basementcat 2y ago
An electoral majority of voters agree that handing him influence over federal government operations was better than the alternative. I am not aware of any widespread "regret" by voters over this issue; please correct me if I'm mistaken.
- jm4 2y ago
  What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about free market with regards to EVs and I’m saying there isn’t one due to Musk’s influence in the U.S. government. Whether or not voters supported that or continue to support it is beside the point.
- yellowapple 2y ago
  He was appointed, not elected. Precisely zero voters agreed upon any such thing.
- jfengel 2y ago
  You're not mistaken. For those voters who chose him, this is all widely popular. There is surely some "regret" somewhere, but that's true of any election once it's over. There is good reason to think that the leopards will start eating their faces eventually, but for the moment the leopards are mostly eating the faces they were sent to eat.
basementcat 2y ago
An interesting theory that a colleague proposed to me recently is that it is indeed consistent with free market principles for monopolistic entities to emerge and influence public policy. Consumers presumably think very hard about every purchasing decision weighing both economic value proposition (are these bananas cheaper than those bananas) as well as social signaling (should I buy a beer that has an advertisement with a trans person). If they want a business to have more political influence, they will buy more of their products and services. Therefore operators of the business have a fiduciary duty to shareholders and customers to exert as much influence over public policy as possible.