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> That’s just the problem. Meta was going to give users a choice between paying with “private data” or paying money. Well, per GDPR they aren't allowed to do t

> That’s just the problem. Meta was going to give users a choice between paying with “private data” or paying money. Well, per GDPR they aren't allowed to do that. Are they giving that option to users outside of EU? Why Not? > The EU won’t let people make that choice are you saying people in the EU are too dumb to decide for themselves? No I do not think that. What made you think that I think that? What about sex and organs? In your opinion should businesses be allowed to charge you with those? > But how is your data that you give to Facebook “private” to you? I didn't give it to them. What is so hard to understand about that? Are you saying that your browsing data isn't private to you? Care to share it?

scarface_74 2y ago
> Well, per GDPR they aren't allowed to do that. Are they giving that option to users outside of EU? Why Not? Because no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices. > What about sex and organs? In your opinion should businesses be allowed to charge you with those? If consenting adults decide they want to have sex as a financial arrangement why not? Do you think these 25 year old “girlfriends” of 70 year old millionaires are there for the love? > I didn't give it to them. What is so hard to understand about that? When you are on Facebook’s platform and you tell them your name, interests, relationship status, check ins, and on their site, you’re not voluntarily giving them your data? > Are you saying that your browsing data isn't private to you? Care to share it? If I am using a service and giving that service information about me, yes I expect that service to have information about me. Just like right now, HN knows my email address and my comment history and where I access this site from.
- dbetteridge 2y ago
  There's a fundamental difference I think in the European mindset on private data and the American. From the European mindset: private data is not "given" to a company, the company is temporarily allowed to use the data while that person engages in a relationship with the company, the data remains owned by the person (think copyright and licensing of artistic works). American companies: think that they are granted ownership of data, just because they collect it. Therefore they cannot understand or don't want to comply with things like GDPR where they must ask to collect data and even then must only use it according to the whims of the person to whom it belongs.
- watwut 2y ago
  It is more that they are not dumb enough to buy into these kind of manipulative arguments.
- troupo 2y ago
  > Because no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices. In case of Facebook (or tracking generally) you had no chance to make an informed choice. You are just tracked, and your data is sold to hundreds of "partners" with no possibility to say "no" > Just like right now, HN knows my email address and my comment history and where I access this site from. And that is fine. You'd know that if you spent about one afternoon reading through GDPR, a regulation that has been around for 8 years.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Facebook doesn’t sell your data. Why would they? Having your data is their competitive advantage. They sell access to you based on the data they have.
    - troupo 2y ago
      > Facebook doesn’t sell your data. A distinction without meaning. Here's your original statement: "no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices." Questions: At which point do you make informed choice about the data that Facebook collects on you? At which point do you make informed choice about Facebook tracking you across the internet, even on websites that do not belong to Facebook, and through third parties that Facebook doesn't own? At which point do you make an informed choice to let Facebook use any and all data it has on you to train Facebook's AI? Bonus questions: At which point did Facebook actually start give users at least some information on the data they collect and letting them do an informed choice?
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        > At which point do you make informed choice about the data that Facebook collects on you? You make an “informed choice” when you create a Facebook account, give Facebook your name, date of birth, your relationship status and who you are in a relationship with, your sexual orientation, when you check in to where you have been, when you click on and buy from advertisers, when you join a Facebook group, when you tell it who your friends are… Should I go on? At each point you made an affirmative choice about giving Facebook your information. > At which point do you make informed choice about Facebook tracking you across the internet, even on websites that do not belong to Facebook, and through third parties that Facebook doesn't own? That hasn’t been the case since 2018. https://martech.org/facebooks-removal-of-third-party-targeting-data-what-we-know/#:~:text=Facebook%20announced%20it%20will%20be,Here's%20what%20we%20know. https://martech.org/facebooks-removal-of-third-party-targeti... With ATT, Facebook doesn’t collect data from third party apps at least on iOS if you opt out. It’s cost Facebook billions of dollars https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2022/04/23/apple-just-issued-stunning-12-billion-blow-to-facebook/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2022/04/23/appl... > At which point did Facebook actually start give users at least some information on the data they collect and letting them do an informed choice? https://www.vox.com/2018/4/14/17236072/facebook-mark-zuckerberg-ad-advertising-pixel-data https://www.vox.com/2018/4/14/17236072/facebook-mark-zuckerb...

scarface_74 2y ago

> Well, per GDPR they aren't allowed to do that. Are they giving that option to users outside of EU? Why Not? Because no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices. > What about sex and organs? In your opinion should businesses be allowed to charge you with those? If consenting adults decide they want to have sex as a financial arrangement why not? Do you think these 25 year old “girlfriends” of 70 year old millionaires are there for the love? > I didn't give it to them. What is so hard to understand about that? When you are on Facebook’s platform and you tell them your name, interests, relationship status, check ins, and on their site, you’re not voluntarily giving them your data? > Are you saying that your browsing data isn't private to you? Care to share it? If I am using a service and giving that service information about me, yes I expect that service to have information about me. Just like right now, HN knows my email address and my comment history and where I access this site from.

dbetteridge 2y ago
There's a fundamental difference I think in the European mindset on private data and the American. From the European mindset: private data is not "given" to a company, the company is temporarily allowed to use the data while that person engages in a relationship with the company, the data remains owned by the person (think copyright and licensing of artistic works). American companies: think that they are granted ownership of data, just because they collect it. Therefore they cannot understand or don't want to comply with things like GDPR where they must ask to collect data and even then must only use it according to the whims of the person to whom it belongs.
watwut 2y ago
It is more that they are not dumb enough to buy into these kind of manipulative arguments.
troupo 2y ago
> Because no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices. In case of Facebook (or tracking generally) you had no chance to make an informed choice. You are just tracked, and your data is sold to hundreds of "partners" with no possibility to say "no" > Just like right now, HN knows my email address and my comment history and where I access this site from. And that is fine. You'd know that if you spent about one afternoon reading through GDPR, a regulation that has been around for 8 years.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Facebook doesn’t sell your data. Why would they? Having your data is their competitive advantage. They sell access to you based on the data they have.
  - troupo 2y ago
    > Facebook doesn’t sell your data. A distinction without meaning. Here's your original statement: "no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices." Questions: At which point do you make informed choice about the data that Facebook collects on you? At which point do you make informed choice about Facebook tracking you across the internet, even on websites that do not belong to Facebook, and through third parties that Facebook doesn't own? At which point do you make an informed choice to let Facebook use any and all data it has on you to train Facebook's AI? Bonus questions: At which point did Facebook actually start give users at least some information on the data they collect and letting them do an informed choice?
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      > At which point do you make informed choice about the data that Facebook collects on you? You make an “informed choice” when you create a Facebook account, give Facebook your name, date of birth, your relationship status and who you are in a relationship with, your sexual orientation, when you check in to where you have been, when you click on and buy from advertisers, when you join a Facebook group, when you tell it who your friends are… Should I go on? At each point you made an affirmative choice about giving Facebook your information. > At which point do you make informed choice about Facebook tracking you across the internet, even on websites that do not belong to Facebook, and through third parties that Facebook doesn't own? That hasn’t been the case since 2018. https://martech.org/facebooks-removal-of-third-party-targeting-data-what-we-know/#:~:text=Facebook%20announced%20it%20will%20be,Here's%20what%20we%20know. https://martech.org/facebooks-removal-of-third-party-targeti... With ATT, Facebook doesn’t collect data from third party apps at least on iOS if you opt out. It’s cost Facebook billions of dollars https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2022/04/23/apple-just-issued-stunning-12-billion-blow-to-facebook/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2022/04/23/appl... > At which point did Facebook actually start give users at least some information on the data they collect and letting them do an informed choice? https://www.vox.com/2018/4/14/17236072/facebook-mark-zuckerberg-ad-advertising-pixel-data https://www.vox.com/2018/4/14/17236072/facebook-mark-zuckerb...