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> The EU right now is telling Meta that it is illegal to give users the option of either ads based on behavior on the platform or charging a monthly subscriptio

> The EU right now is telling Meta that it is illegal to give users the option of either ads based on behavior on the platform or charging a monthly subscription fee. And? With GDPR the EU decided that private data cannot be used as a form of payment. It can only be voluntarily given. Similarly to using ones body. You can fuck whoever you want and you can give your organs if you so choose but no business is allowed to be payed in sex or organs.

scarface_74 2y ago
That’s just the problem. Meta was going to give users a choice between paying with “private data” or paying money. The EU won’t let people make that choice are you saying people in the EU are too dumb to decide for themselves? But how is your data that you give to Facebook “private” to you? Facebook isn’t sharing your data to others. Ad buyers tell Facebook “Put this ad in front of people between 25-30 who look at pages that are similar to $x on Facebook”
- Kbelicius 2y ago
  > That’s just the problem. Meta was going to give users a choice between paying with “private data” or paying money. Well, per GDPR they aren't allowed to do that. Are they giving that option to users outside of EU? Why Not? > The EU won’t let people make that choice are you saying people in the EU are too dumb to decide for themselves? No I do not think that. What made you think that I think that? What about sex and organs? In your opinion should businesses be allowed to charge you with those? > But how is your data that you give to Facebook “private” to you? I didn't give it to them. What is so hard to understand about that? Are you saying that your browsing data isn't private to you? Care to share it?
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    > Well, per GDPR they aren't allowed to do that. Are they giving that option to users outside of EU? Why Not? Because no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices. > What about sex and organs? In your opinion should businesses be allowed to charge you with those? If consenting adults decide they want to have sex as a financial arrangement why not? Do you think these 25 year old “girlfriends” of 70 year old millionaires are there for the love? > I didn't give it to them. What is so hard to understand about that? When you are on Facebook’s platform and you tell them your name, interests, relationship status, check ins, and on their site, you’re not voluntarily giving them your data? > Are you saying that your browsing data isn't private to you? Care to share it? If I am using a service and giving that service information about me, yes I expect that service to have information about me. Just like right now, HN knows my email address and my comment history and where I access this site from.
    - dbetteridge 2y ago
      There's a fundamental difference I think in the European mindset on private data and the American. From the European mindset: private data is not "given" to a company, the company is temporarily allowed to use the data while that person engages in a relationship with the company, the data remains owned by the person (think copyright and licensing of artistic works). American companies: think that they are granted ownership of data, just because they collect it. Therefore they cannot understand or don't want to comply with things like GDPR where they must ask to collect data and even then must only use it according to the whims of the person to whom it belongs.
    - watwut 2y ago
      It is more that they are not dumb enough to buy into these kind of manipulative arguments.
    - troupo 2y ago
      > Because no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices. In case of Facebook (or tracking generally) you had no chance to make an informed choice. You are just tracked, and your data is sold to hundreds of "partners" with no possibility to say "no" > Just like right now, HN knows my email address and my comment history and where I access this site from. And that is fine. You'd know that if you spent about one afternoon reading through GDPR, a regulation that has been around for 8 years.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        Facebook doesn’t sell your data. Why would they? Having your data is their competitive advantage. They sell access to you based on the data they have.
        troupo 2y ago
        > Facebook doesn’t sell your data. A distinction without meaning. Here's your original statement: "no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices." Questions: At which point do you make informed choice about the data that Facebook collects on you? At which point do you make informed choice about Facebook tracking you across the internet, even on websites that do not belong to Facebook, and through third parties that Facebook doesn't own? At which point do you make an informed choice to let Facebook use any and all data it has on you to train Facebook's AI? Bonus questions: At which point did Facebook actually start give users at least some information on the data they collect and letting them do an informed choice?
- shortsunblack 2y ago
  You cannot barter with fundamental human rights, which right to data protection is (as per Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union), the same way you cannot barter yourself into slavery, even if you insist you are willing and consenting. By what precedent? By the precedent of the state being sovereign in enacting law.
- danielscrubs 2y ago
  WeChat would exit on Android if you didn’t give your contact list to them, but this behaviour wasn’t allowed on iOS by our Apple overlords and Im quite happy about that.

scarface_74 2y ago

That’s just the problem. Meta was going to give users a choice between paying with “private data” or paying money. The EU won’t let people make that choice are you saying people in the EU are too dumb to decide for themselves? But how is your data that you give to Facebook “private” to you? Facebook isn’t sharing your data to others. Ad buyers tell Facebook “Put this ad in front of people between 25-30 who look at pages that are similar to $x on Facebook”

Kbelicius 2y ago
> That’s just the problem. Meta was going to give users a choice between paying with “private data” or paying money. Well, per GDPR they aren't allowed to do that. Are they giving that option to users outside of EU? Why Not? > The EU won’t let people make that choice are you saying people in the EU are too dumb to decide for themselves? No I do not think that. What made you think that I think that? What about sex and organs? In your opinion should businesses be allowed to charge you with those? > But how is your data that you give to Facebook “private” to you? I didn't give it to them. What is so hard to understand about that? Are you saying that your browsing data isn't private to you? Care to share it?
- scarface_74 2y ago
  > Well, per GDPR they aren't allowed to do that. Are they giving that option to users outside of EU? Why Not? Because no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices. > What about sex and organs? In your opinion should businesses be allowed to charge you with those? If consenting adults decide they want to have sex as a financial arrangement why not? Do you think these 25 year old “girlfriends” of 70 year old millionaires are there for the love? > I didn't give it to them. What is so hard to understand about that? When you are on Facebook’s platform and you tell them your name, interests, relationship status, check ins, and on their site, you’re not voluntarily giving them your data? > Are you saying that your browsing data isn't private to you? Care to share it? If I am using a service and giving that service information about me, yes I expect that service to have information about me. Just like right now, HN knows my email address and my comment history and where I access this site from.
  - dbetteridge 2y ago
    There's a fundamental difference I think in the European mindset on private data and the American. From the European mindset: private data is not "given" to a company, the company is temporarily allowed to use the data while that person engages in a relationship with the company, the data remains owned by the person (think copyright and licensing of artistic works). American companies: think that they are granted ownership of data, just because they collect it. Therefore they cannot understand or don't want to comply with things like GDPR where they must ask to collect data and even then must only use it according to the whims of the person to whom it belongs.
  - watwut 2y ago
    It is more that they are not dumb enough to buy into these kind of manipulative arguments.
  - troupo 2y ago
    > Because no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices. In case of Facebook (or tracking generally) you had no chance to make an informed choice. You are just tracked, and your data is sold to hundreds of "partners" with no possibility to say "no" > Just like right now, HN knows my email address and my comment history and where I access this site from. And that is fine. You'd know that if you spent about one afternoon reading through GDPR, a regulation that has been around for 8 years.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Facebook doesn’t sell your data. Why would they? Having your data is their competitive advantage. They sell access to you based on the data they have.
      - troupo 2y ago
        > Facebook doesn’t sell your data. A distinction without meaning. Here's your original statement: "no other place thinks that their citizens are too dumb to make informed choices." Questions: At which point do you make informed choice about the data that Facebook collects on you? At which point do you make informed choice about Facebook tracking you across the internet, even on websites that do not belong to Facebook, and through third parties that Facebook doesn't own? At which point do you make an informed choice to let Facebook use any and all data it has on you to train Facebook's AI? Bonus questions: At which point did Facebook actually start give users at least some information on the data they collect and letting them do an informed choice?
shortsunblack 2y ago
You cannot barter with fundamental human rights, which right to data protection is (as per Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union), the same way you cannot barter yourself into slavery, even if you insist you are willing and consenting. By what precedent? By the precedent of the state being sovereign in enacting law.
danielscrubs 2y ago
WeChat would exit on Android if you didn’t give your contact list to them, but this behaviour wasn’t allowed on iOS by our Apple overlords and Im quite happy about that.