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I don't think such a system does or can exist. e.g. nl-NL is distinct from nl-BE which is distinct from fr-BE. Using a country flag doesn't work if a country us

by Doxin 2y ago

I don't think such a system does or can exist. e.g. nl-NL is distinct from nl-BE which is distinct from fr-BE. Using a country flag doesn't work if a country uses multiple languages. Languages themselves don't have icons to go with them like countries do, but even if they did it wouldn't distinguish between the same language spoken in different countries, which can matter a lot for how things get localized. nl-NL uses way more words with french roots than nl-BE for example. What I tend to do is have a dropdown with a country icon and language name localized to that language for each language. My pet peeve is trying to switch a website from a language I don't speak into one I do speak and the dropdown listing "Dutch" as "Néerlandais" or whatever instead of "Nederlands". I don't speak french, why would I know what dutch is called in french?

eviks 2y ago
You're slightly confusing dialects with countries (there can be ones not tied to a single country), but more importantly, this places no hard limit on design, you can have icon variations for dialects as well. (and yes, language switching menus you can't understand are dumb, especially for more complicated cases where names don't even look similar, but unfortunately common)
- wongarsu 2y ago
  As they say: a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. And even that criterium quickly breaks down at mild scrutiny. And not just because of landlocked countries. Linguists try to draw some lines in the sand, but in the end the reasons we call Swiss German a dialect and Luxemburgish a language are cultural and political.
  - Tomte 2y ago
    > As they say: a language is a dialect with an army and a navy As opposed to a country, which needs an airline and a beer: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/09/16/beer-airline/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/09/16/beer-airline/
  - int_19h 2y ago
    Politicians are the ones still trying to draw arbitrary lines based on language. Linguists have largely threw in the towel on this quite some time ago.
  - eviks 2y ago
    So if your criterium breaks down, you would agree that you can't map every single language/dialect to a country in a neat fr-BE scheme?
    - mappu 2y ago
      The example given is de-CH and lb-LU - a counterexample for the neat scheme would require separate dialects of the same language within a single country e.g. 近畿方言.
    - psychoslave 2y ago
      Obviously no, 26² makes 676, and number of languages in the world is estimated to be around 4000 and 8000. Given that 26³ is 17576, you would probably start to have something vast enough with scheme like ab-cd-ef.
  - weinzierl 2y ago
    I think the language/dialect distinction is not even helpful - all that counts is what people understand. As a native German speaker, who never learnt Dutch, I can tell you that I understand nl-NL a lot better than de-CH. There is a reason de-CH is subtiteled in German media.

by Doxin 2y ago

eviks 2y ago

You're slightly confusing dialects with countries (there can be ones not tied to a single country), but more importantly, this places no hard limit on design, you can have icon variations for dialects as well. (and yes, language switching menus you can't understand are dumb, especially for more complicated cases where names don't even look similar, but unfortunately common)

wongarsu 2y ago
As they say: a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. And even that criterium quickly breaks down at mild scrutiny. And not just because of landlocked countries. Linguists try to draw some lines in the sand, but in the end the reasons we call Swiss German a dialect and Luxemburgish a language are cultural and political.
- Tomte 2y ago
  > As they say: a language is a dialect with an army and a navy As opposed to a country, which needs an airline and a beer: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/09/16/beer-airline/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/09/16/beer-airline/
- int_19h 2y ago
  Politicians are the ones still trying to draw arbitrary lines based on language. Linguists have largely threw in the towel on this quite some time ago.
- eviks 2y ago
  So if your criterium breaks down, you would agree that you can't map every single language/dialect to a country in a neat fr-BE scheme?
  - mappu 2y ago
    The example given is de-CH and lb-LU - a counterexample for the neat scheme would require separate dialects of the same language within a single country e.g. 近畿方言.
  - psychoslave 2y ago
    Obviously no, 26² makes 676, and number of languages in the world is estimated to be around 4000 and 8000. Given that 26³ is 17576, you would probably start to have something vast enough with scheme like ab-cd-ef.
- weinzierl 2y ago
  I think the language/dialect distinction is not even helpful - all that counts is what people understand. As a native German speaker, who never learnt Dutch, I can tell you that I understand nl-NL a lot better than de-CH. There is a reason de-CH is subtiteled in German media.