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The WSJ says this is the "the dumbest trade war in history" because "when you tax something you get less of it". If the goal of the Red Hats was to get more go

The WSJ says this is the "the dumbest trade war in history" because "when you tax something you get less of it". If the goal of the Red Hats was to get more goods from Canada and Mexico, then yes, tariffs would be a dumb policy. But the Red Hats aren't dumb. They've been planning this blitzkrieg for at least 18 months. They have thousands of intelligent people on their team and they're well organized. It's too easy to just dismiss this as ignorance, hubris and ego. If you recognize that they're not dumb, that they know exactly what they're doing, then they must be pursuing different and mostly hidden objectives for this to make sense. Once the hidden objectives are revealed, we'll all recognize the horrible logic of their actions. > Will take a decade to recover the goodwill lost this week. Indeed. All according to the plan.

uejfiweun 2y ago
What do you speculate that the end goal is here? What are you implying?
- panarky 2y ago
  I don't pretend to know their playbook. All I can see are the visible actions on the surface and try to infer from that what the underlying rationale and strategy are. But if a new regime took control in another nation and did everything the Red Hats have done, you could infer that they had a coherent strategy that explains their actions. When the stated rationale for an action like tariffs doesn't make sense (preventing fentanyl from Canada?), the reason it doesn't make sense is not that the action itself is "dumb", it's because the stated rationale for the action is bogus. So they're doing tariffs for a reason and they're hiding the real reason. If you're on the inside and know the real story, you win. If you're on the outside and keep believing their stories and thinking they're just ignorant, you lose. Then you see the largest physical movement of gold into the US in decades, and now you guess that insiders are already positioning themselves for what's coming. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-31/jpmorgan-plans-4-billion-gold-delivery-in-us-amid-tariff-fears https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-31/jpmorgan-... If it takes a hoard of gold to protect yourself, then what's coming is not good. The last one to figure out the real strategy will be left holding the bag of devalued dollars and repudiated Treasury paper.
  - thiht 2y ago
    After the first 4 years of Trump you should have understood there’s no deeper plan than "let’s destroy shit and burn bridges", because it’s too woke or too socialist or whatever. Trump is not a genius posing as a dumbass, he’s just a dumbass. He wanted to nuke a hurricane ffs.
    - georgemcbay 2y ago
      Personally I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of the vast conspiracy and your take on it. I agree with your take on Trump, its just that I don't believe he's the one running the show this time. Watching his EO signing bonanza it was pretty obvious he had no clue what like half of them were and was just rubber stamping other people's plans. The more interesting aspect is which faction of the people that are handling Trump (the heritage foundation folks or the techbros) will end up on top because I don't think their interests are aligned beyond the short term.
    - chudstudley 2y ago
      > he’s just a dumbass. Which is precisely the point. In a plutocracy, a monarch serves at the behest of the plutocrats. He is the CEO and they are the Board of Directors over the country. Trump doesn't need to be smart, he just needs to have sway over the single-party Management, which he does. The "destroy shit and burn bridges" is the job of Management, who ensures the security of investments made by the Board. What the comment above you is pointing out is that major banks are stockpiling gold likely because a major crash is around the corner. Now, what they haven't said is that these current events are actually a part of the NRx (Neo-reactionary) manifesto proposed by Curtis Yarvin at BIL in 2012. Yarvin's playbook served as a major piece of the guiding philosophy behind Project 2025. People like Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance, and yes Elon Musk, have all been taking notes from Yarvin's proposals for a hard-reset on the U.S. government. Even DOGE is an implementation of Yarvin's RAGE (Retire All Government Employees). Likely, the plan is to sunset the FDIC (another New-Deal safeguard that slows corporate gains) and replace the ACH with with a new and private system backed by plutocratic investment. In order to do this, the plutocrats must take control of the Treasury's payment systems, and the FBI must be neutered to prevent investigation into this. These two things are happening now. Next, the economy must be destabilized in order to set the precedent for either legislature or emergency powers that dissolve the FDIC and reroute ACH transfers through the new system (likely Musk's X). This destabilization is what the tariffs are for. When all forms of cash-flow are under plutocratic control, it becomes very unlikely that domestic funds could be raised to oppose them, no matter how politically or socially motivated the masses may be. Elections can even continue if the people want, but the funds won't make it to the opposition, the news of that won't make it to the majority of the general populace, and there won't be an organization that is able to investigate why. Trump doesn't need to know or understand any of this, however. All he needs to do is sign off on what the Board of Plutocrats tell him to. Whether they can actually pull off this switch-over is the real question. The top 10% of the U.S. controls 60% of it's wealth, and 813 of it's 345,000,000 people are billionaires. You and I aren't rich enough to do anything but wait and see what happens. But hey, in a couple centuries, Rome will spit in two again, so there's that at least.
- 6510 2y ago
  Here in the Netherlands some of the potatoes we grow are cut in Poland then some of the cut potatoes are sold in the Netherlands again. I'm sure it makes perfect sense from a business perspective. The Polish factory can do some additional cutting, packaging and transport cheaper than our own potato cutting means. You could say it makes no sense to do it ourselves, many believe this. If you do this with many goods and services your politicians cant really have disagreeable opinions. If they pull any lever backwards or push it forwards the ecosystem starts to destabilize. Trump enjoys negotiating, he has various tools at his disposal one of which is the most expensive military in the world. This is a very large lever to pull. He cant really extort people with it if declaring war instantly turns the domestic market to chaos. That said, it doesn't require pulling a big lever to trigger a trade war or to implode the us dollar. Donald wants to be able to press all the buttons and flick all the switches in his negotiations. To see the goal of his negotiations you only have to look which branch of the international mafia he supports the most. If you see him grovel at someones feet you know who his true master is.
- addandsubtract 2y ago
  The tariffs are effectively a tax on the poor and middle class, without calling it that by name. Instead, it creates outrage over "the others" for being the bad guys. Afterwards, they will lower the taxes on the rich.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  The Donald is almost as old as Biden and likely has early onset dementia. What he wants changes by the minute, and multiple people have confirmed he only really repeats what the last person he spoke to said. So it's really the agenda of the people around him, who are a mix of Project 2025'ers, Billionaire Oligarchs who want to solidify control, and foreign money, esp. Russian & Chinese money, who want to fracture NATO and the global order. Tank the US economy so stocks fall, the economy stumbles, and the BRICS have a chance at the world order. In exchange, the wealthy get to own the US. Specifically, running a trade war for a couple months will tank stocks and make it easy for Capital to buy up everything. Now they own the gov'mnt and all the business. Same basic play as with Brexit -- tank the economy, burn international bridges, exactly follow the Russian playbook, and in exchange we'll let a handful of you rule like Tsars.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    > The Donald is almost as old as Biden and likely has early onset dementia. He's too old to have early onset dementia.
licebmi__at__ 2y ago
I guess we could agree that the goal of the "Red Hats" was not cheap eggs, right?

uejfiweun 2y ago

What do you speculate that the end goal is here? What are you implying?

panarky 2y ago
I don't pretend to know their playbook. All I can see are the visible actions on the surface and try to infer from that what the underlying rationale and strategy are. But if a new regime took control in another nation and did everything the Red Hats have done, you could infer that they had a coherent strategy that explains their actions. When the stated rationale for an action like tariffs doesn't make sense (preventing fentanyl from Canada?), the reason it doesn't make sense is not that the action itself is "dumb", it's because the stated rationale for the action is bogus. So they're doing tariffs for a reason and they're hiding the real reason. If you're on the inside and know the real story, you win. If you're on the outside and keep believing their stories and thinking they're just ignorant, you lose. Then you see the largest physical movement of gold into the US in decades, and now you guess that insiders are already positioning themselves for what's coming. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-31/jpmorgan-plans-4-billion-gold-delivery-in-us-amid-tariff-fears https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-31/jpmorgan-... If it takes a hoard of gold to protect yourself, then what's coming is not good. The last one to figure out the real strategy will be left holding the bag of devalued dollars and repudiated Treasury paper.
- thiht 2y ago
  After the first 4 years of Trump you should have understood there’s no deeper plan than "let’s destroy shit and burn bridges", because it’s too woke or too socialist or whatever. Trump is not a genius posing as a dumbass, he’s just a dumbass. He wanted to nuke a hurricane ffs.
  - georgemcbay 2y ago
    Personally I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of the vast conspiracy and your take on it. I agree with your take on Trump, its just that I don't believe he's the one running the show this time. Watching his EO signing bonanza it was pretty obvious he had no clue what like half of them were and was just rubber stamping other people's plans. The more interesting aspect is which faction of the people that are handling Trump (the heritage foundation folks or the techbros) will end up on top because I don't think their interests are aligned beyond the short term.
  - chudstudley 2y ago
    > he’s just a dumbass. Which is precisely the point. In a plutocracy, a monarch serves at the behest of the plutocrats. He is the CEO and they are the Board of Directors over the country. Trump doesn't need to be smart, he just needs to have sway over the single-party Management, which he does. The "destroy shit and burn bridges" is the job of Management, who ensures the security of investments made by the Board. What the comment above you is pointing out is that major banks are stockpiling gold likely because a major crash is around the corner. Now, what they haven't said is that these current events are actually a part of the NRx (Neo-reactionary) manifesto proposed by Curtis Yarvin at BIL in 2012. Yarvin's playbook served as a major piece of the guiding philosophy behind Project 2025. People like Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance, and yes Elon Musk, have all been taking notes from Yarvin's proposals for a hard-reset on the U.S. government. Even DOGE is an implementation of Yarvin's RAGE (Retire All Government Employees). Likely, the plan is to sunset the FDIC (another New-Deal safeguard that slows corporate gains) and replace the ACH with with a new and private system backed by plutocratic investment. In order to do this, the plutocrats must take control of the Treasury's payment systems, and the FBI must be neutered to prevent investigation into this. These two things are happening now. Next, the economy must be destabilized in order to set the precedent for either legislature or emergency powers that dissolve the FDIC and reroute ACH transfers through the new system (likely Musk's X). This destabilization is what the tariffs are for. When all forms of cash-flow are under plutocratic control, it becomes very unlikely that domestic funds could be raised to oppose them, no matter how politically or socially motivated the masses may be. Elections can even continue if the people want, but the funds won't make it to the opposition, the news of that won't make it to the majority of the general populace, and there won't be an organization that is able to investigate why. Trump doesn't need to know or understand any of this, however. All he needs to do is sign off on what the Board of Plutocrats tell him to. Whether they can actually pull off this switch-over is the real question. The top 10% of the U.S. controls 60% of it's wealth, and 813 of it's 345,000,000 people are billionaires. You and I aren't rich enough to do anything but wait and see what happens. But hey, in a couple centuries, Rome will spit in two again, so there's that at least.
6510 2y ago
Here in the Netherlands some of the potatoes we grow are cut in Poland then some of the cut potatoes are sold in the Netherlands again. I'm sure it makes perfect sense from a business perspective. The Polish factory can do some additional cutting, packaging and transport cheaper than our own potato cutting means. You could say it makes no sense to do it ourselves, many believe this. If you do this with many goods and services your politicians cant really have disagreeable opinions. If they pull any lever backwards or push it forwards the ecosystem starts to destabilize. Trump enjoys negotiating, he has various tools at his disposal one of which is the most expensive military in the world. This is a very large lever to pull. He cant really extort people with it if declaring war instantly turns the domestic market to chaos. That said, it doesn't require pulling a big lever to trigger a trade war or to implode the us dollar. Donald wants to be able to press all the buttons and flick all the switches in his negotiations. To see the goal of his negotiations you only have to look which branch of the international mafia he supports the most. If you see him grovel at someones feet you know who his true master is.
addandsubtract 2y ago
The tariffs are effectively a tax on the poor and middle class, without calling it that by name. Instead, it creates outrage over "the others" for being the bad guys. Afterwards, they will lower the taxes on the rich.
red-iron-pine 2y ago
The Donald is almost as old as Biden and likely has early onset dementia. What he wants changes by the minute, and multiple people have confirmed he only really repeats what the last person he spoke to said. So it's really the agenda of the people around him, who are a mix of Project 2025'ers, Billionaire Oligarchs who want to solidify control, and foreign money, esp. Russian & Chinese money, who want to fracture NATO and the global order. Tank the US economy so stocks fall, the economy stumbles, and the BRICS have a chance at the world order. In exchange, the wealthy get to own the US. Specifically, running a trade war for a couple months will tank stocks and make it easy for Capital to buy up everything. Now they own the gov'mnt and all the business. Same basic play as with Brexit -- tank the economy, burn international bridges, exactly follow the Russian playbook, and in exchange we'll let a handful of you rule like Tsars.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  > The Donald is almost as old as Biden and likely has early onset dementia. He's too old to have early onset dementia.

licebmi__at__ 2y ago

I guess we could agree that the goal of the "Red Hats" was not cheap eggs, right?