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On empty stomachs versus well feed soldiers? Who might be conscripted and organized?
by homme 18y ago
On empty stomachs versus well feed soldiers? Who might be conscripted and organized?
- tome 18y agoPrecisely. My point is that once the situation I described has been arrived at, there's no hope for Libland. Therefore, I presume, Libertarianism has a way to prevent the situation arising in the first place. What is it?
- cx01 18y agoIf the residents of Libland sense that they might be attacked, they would obviously keep food reserves or start buying only home-grown food in order to support their own industry.
- tome 18y agoIt's not in their interest to do that individually, but only as a matter of domestic policy.
- cx01 18y agoOf course it is. If there's a huge uncontrollable risk, people will insure themselves against it. If people know that they might be attacked and don't have enough food, they will hoard some.
- tome 18y agoMy point is that unless the nation collectively hoards food for the military then it's not worth doing. If they hoard individually it buys them a few more months of survival in dire circumstances. What's the point? They might as well spend their money to best enjoy their remaining time before invasion.
- gaius 18y agoIf everyone stockpiles individually for themselves and their families then you have a massive distributed cache that is more resilient that a centralized warehouse that can be bombed. You seem to think the responsibilities of "the state", "the military" and "individuals" are distinct. They're not. Some individuals like to pretend they are, and rely on the government to do X (and some governments play the same game and rely on individuals to do Y) but reality will always eventually assert itself, whatever system of government you prefer.
- tome 18y agoBut they won't stockpile individually, because it's in no one's individual interest to stockpile. (This is an example of the Prisoner's Dilemma). I agree with you that "reality will always assert itself" but I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone things that Libertarianism can be that reality.
- cx01 18y agoIf I tell you there would be no food in a month, then you wouldn't stockpile some? I don't believe this.
- tome 18y agoWell it depends on other factors, but that's not the point. In this situation: * Firstly, who's to tell Liblanders that they risk invasion? It's not clear that Libertarianism supports the notion of foreign policy, diplomacy, espionage etc. * Secondly, all the food in the country is coming from Xia. Once demand grows Xia realises that Libland has recognised the threat and invades immediately.
- cx01 18y agoThere might be food insurance companies. They would have advertisements telling people of a probable military intervention by Xia and recommend people to buy food insurance in order to be safe. Regarding your second point: The realization that Xia might attack will probably not come suddenly but slowly. So people will gradually begin investing in food insurance. It's unlikely that Xia turns from friend to enemy in a matter of days.
- gaius 18y agoAnd it's not in the government's interests to do it either, if it would cost votes.
- tome 18y agoIndeed, and I'd put similar points to anyone who proposed "true" direct democracy.
- gaius 18y agoNow you're just being ridiculous. What country wouldn't have food reserves? Even tinned food in supermarkets, let alone military stockpiles. Unless Xia managed to perfectly conceal its dislike for its neighbour, that is. Perhaps they had MAGIC UNICORNS to help?
- tome 18y agoWhy would anyone in Libland be interested in the motives of its neighbour? Foreign policy and intelligence is normally the realm of a government. Who performs that role in Libland, and what is their incentive to do so?
- gaius 18y agoErr, the government does. Perhaps you ought to go to Wikipedia and look up the difference between Libertarianism and Anarchy?
- tome 18y agoForeign policy is not mentioned on the Wikipedia page for Libertarianism. How does a Libertarian system decide which roles (like researching the intentions of foreign states, and defending against them) a government should play, and which (like presumably researching the weather, and defending against natural disasters) it shouldn't?
- homme 18y agoMoreover, how does it morally confiscate wealth to finance programs from those inhabitants that don't want to pay for said activities?
- tome 18y agoSo Xia fights Libland until its food reserves are depleted.
- gravitycop 18y agoWhat country wouldn't have food reserves? The United States does not have food reserves (other than grain stored in grain elevators, which grain Tome implied Libland would instead be importing just-in-time). Here is what the United States has to look forward to in a national disaster: http://www.google.com/search?q=you+will+survive+nuclear http://www.google.com/search?q=you+will+survive+nuclear You are a survivor. Doomsday has occurred and you are a survivor. While you are waiting for the spouse and kids to get home maybe you should do something practical. Like go down to the supermarket and lay in a bit of an extra stock. You may notice that the little corner store has closed. If he has believed the rumor, he wants to save his stock. And besides, your money may not be worth anything tomorrow. You thought you had seen rapid inflation before but this is like from zero to a million in sixty seconds. At the supermarket, if you are early enough, you will find pandemonium. If not, you will find practically nothing. Maybe a large bag of dog food (take it) and some cans of floor wax (forget it). The rest of the stuff was all in those carts that you met come flying up the walk as you came running down. There won't be any girls at the cash registers, (they have done their shopping and gone). Besides, the cash registers aren't working anyhow, with no power. It may have taken the hired manager a little longer to figure out that he should grab what he can and head home to his family, but he has probably gone now. The only cops you will see are the one's grabbing stuff themselves.