6 ms·

> fMRI studies have found differences in the brain that are highly correlated with gender dysmorphia No they haven't, that study was debunked. There is curren

> fMRI studies have found differences in the brain that are highly correlated with gender dysmorphia No they haven't, that study was debunked. There is currently no physically detectable way to identify gender dysmorphia or trans identity, there is only self-report.

whatshisface 2y ago
If someone started grinding up those pill things and putting them in your salt shaker, you wouldn't be able to prove that you didn't like the results - unless we can believe self-reports.
- naasking 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - whatshisface 2y ago
    What special privileges?
    - naasking 2y ago
      Sex-segregated spaces for one. For another, is anyone obligated to call a Catholic priest "father" simply because his beliefs give him a special title? Of course not. Clearly gender is not treated this way.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Believing swlf-report for an n of 1 question of personal preference is very different from trusting a self-report survey meant to extrapolate the results of one cohort to a larger audience.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
RajT88 2y ago
Unfortunately in this debate, two sides of any given argument from a study cannot even agree on what criteria counts as "debunked". I have seen people use many states of being for a study being in a "debunked" state: Peer pointed out methodological issues Retracted Another study found something in conflict with first one Somebody with a PhD just said it was wrong (regardless of field) Somebody without a PhD said it was wrong, but has domain experience Author of the paper proven to be biased in some way Author of the paper proven to be a cheat (but nothing specific about the paper) And so on...
- naasking 2y ago
  Sure, so to clarify, the study that claimed to find differences in trans brains: * Did not control for sexual orientation (same-sex attracted people exhibit preferences and behaviours of both sexes, and many adolescents who start as trans desist and come out as gay) * Did not control for whether the person was on HRT or puberty blockers (people on opposite sex hormones start developing behaviours and preferences of the opposite sex) * Did not control for body perception disorders (body dysmorphia results in distorted perceptions of one's own body)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - fao_ 2y ago
    > many adolescents who start as trans desist and come out as gay Citation needed. The actual hard evidence with respect to regret rates with GICs are very clear that "desistance", using your word for it, is vanishingly low (less than 1-2%, c.f. knee surgery with 20-30%), and that lack of social acceptance is a huge factor in deciding if someone desists or not — the less social acceptance, the less likely someone is to be able to comfortably transition socially, the more likely they're going to "desist". In other words — not only is the "desistance rate" for treatment vanishingly small, there isn't a straight line between "desisting" and "not being transgender", and one of the most recurring explanations for "desistance" in the study groups basically boiled down to "society has bullied them into hiding themselves". > people on opposite sex hormones start developing behaviours and preferences of the opposite sex Citation needed. In the 70s - 80s there were experiments to try and treat both intersex people and transgender people by giving them the "correct" (cis) hormone, and the subjects involved found it so intolerable they committed suicide. > body dysmorphia results in distorted perceptions of one's own body Correct! And given that you know this, you should also know that treatments for body dysphoria do not work for gender dysphoria, and that for almost 100 years now, the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria has been transitioning.

whatshisface 2y ago

If someone started grinding up those pill things and putting them in your salt shaker, you wouldn't be able to prove that you didn't like the results - unless we can believe self-reports.

naasking 2y ago
[flagged]
- whatshisface 2y ago
  What special privileges?
  - naasking 2y ago
    Sex-segregated spaces for one. For another, is anyone obligated to call a Catholic priest "father" simply because his beliefs give him a special title? Of course not. Clearly gender is not treated this way.
_heimdall 2y ago
Believing swlf-report for an n of 1 question of personal preference is very different from trusting a self-report survey meant to extrapolate the results of one cohort to a larger audience.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

RajT88 2y ago

Unfortunately in this debate, two sides of any given argument from a study cannot even agree on what criteria counts as "debunked". I have seen people use many states of being for a study being in a "debunked" state: Peer pointed out methodological issues Retracted Another study found something in conflict with first one Somebody with a PhD just said it was wrong (regardless of field) Somebody without a PhD said it was wrong, but has domain experience Author of the paper proven to be biased in some way Author of the paper proven to be a cheat (but nothing specific about the paper) And so on...

naasking 2y ago
Sure, so to clarify, the study that claimed to find differences in trans brains: * Did not control for sexual orientation (same-sex attracted people exhibit preferences and behaviours of both sexes, and many adolescents who start as trans desist and come out as gay) * Did not control for whether the person was on HRT or puberty blockers (people on opposite sex hormones start developing behaviours and preferences of the opposite sex) * Did not control for body perception disorders (body dysmorphia results in distorted perceptions of one's own body)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fao_ 2y ago
  > many adolescents who start as trans desist and come out as gay Citation needed. The actual hard evidence with respect to regret rates with GICs are very clear that "desistance", using your word for it, is vanishingly low (less than 1-2%, c.f. knee surgery with 20-30%), and that lack of social acceptance is a huge factor in deciding if someone desists or not — the less social acceptance, the less likely someone is to be able to comfortably transition socially, the more likely they're going to "desist". In other words — not only is the "desistance rate" for treatment vanishingly small, there isn't a straight line between "desisting" and "not being transgender", and one of the most recurring explanations for "desistance" in the study groups basically boiled down to "society has bullied them into hiding themselves". > people on opposite sex hormones start developing behaviours and preferences of the opposite sex Citation needed. In the 70s - 80s there were experiments to try and treat both intersex people and transgender people by giving them the "correct" (cis) hormone, and the subjects involved found it so intolerable they committed suicide. > body dysmorphia results in distorted perceptions of one's own body Correct! And given that you know this, you should also know that treatments for body dysphoria do not work for gender dysphoria, and that for almost 100 years now, the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria has been transitioning.