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I don't think anyone is saying it won't hurt Canada; trade wars hurt both sides. The discussion is whether Canada can make it hurt Trumps supporters enough to

by deeg 2y ago

I don't think anyone is saying it won't hurt Canada; trade wars hurt both sides. The discussion is whether Canada can make it hurt Trumps supporters enough to pressure him to remove the tariffs.

dismalaf 2y ago
My perspective is as a Canadian. The US GDP per capita is 7% above pre-Covid numbers, Canada's is 2% below. Or you can say our GDP per capita has diverged by 9% since COVID. Canada's cost of living is actually untenable right now. Canada can't hold the line long enough to do anything to the US. We'll do it for political reasons until the election this year but it's going to decimate our economy even further.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  Cost of living in Canada has been untenable for the past decade. The choice is to bend the knee or suffer more with the hopes you’ll at least go down with pride. I have no idea how the hell the government across the border got their citizens to start hating on us within a couple of weeks.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    They didn’t. The vast majority of Americans don’t hate Canadians. You don’t need a popular referendum to set tariffs, the president can just do it. One of the many downsides of electing a crazy person as president.
    - tokioyoyo 2y ago
      Fair, apologies for having a knee-jerk reaction to it. It just sucks to scroll a tiny bit on forums and get bombarded with pure hate. I understand that it doesn’t represent the majority, but makes you scratch your head and think why so many level headed people are willing to throw away trust that was built throughout decades. Like I get the whole America First approach, and understand the desire to build out the manufacturing locally… but is it worth it to turn away all of your allies and make them get closer with the actual super power that wants to dethrone you?
      - dismalaf 2y ago
        To be fair Canada and most of the EU haven't come close to fulfillment our NATO requirements since, well, ever. For better or worse most of the free world freeloads off the US' security shield. Canada is especially egregious, where we have a bunch of tariffs and regulations protecting certain Canadian corporations while expecting the US to protect us and buy our products. All the while smugly criticizing them for it.
        tokioyoyo 2y ago
        US gets unquestionable currency dominance from US' security shield. Don't get me wrong, but if that was a real concern, they would've started the tariff war 4, 6, 8 years ago. Economical and political headwinds are showing potential Chinese dominance across all manufacturing and export industries. This is the actual time when US is being threatened and trying to bully others, because they can't fix the problem themselves.
        timeon 2y ago
        > To be fair Canada and most of the EU haven't come close to fulfillment our NATO requirements since, well, ever. For better or worse most of the free world freeloads off the US' security shield. USA is only country that used article 5. Other NATO countries served USA til now not other way around. But it seems that this will end soon. At least in EU, where pro-Russian parties are gaining power.
        dismalaf 2y ago
        The threat of article 5 is powerful... It's the only thing that's prevented Russia from rolling through the Baltics.
        Timon3 2y ago
        > To be fair Canada and most of the EU haven't come close to fulfillment our NATO requirements since, well, ever. Which requirements are those? I'm aware of an agreed 2% GDP target for 2024, which we've reached. Are there other requirements we haven't reached?
  - carbine 2y ago
    sentiment differences are powerful though -- some Americans might rally behind Trump, but if cost of living goes up significantly they won't be patient about it, especially given it's clear that Trump started this whole thing. meanwhile -- excepting those who CAN'T, for whom there may well be govt assistance -- Canadians are angry and will endure (relatively more) pain to prove a point. not saying I want this outcome, but I think the willingness to endure pain to harm the opposing party is different in each country.
psb217 2y ago
You also have to account for how much Trump cares about his supporters vs how much any Canadian politician with sufficient power to act cares about their supporters. Trump is already elected, so whatever self-interested concern he had for his supporters is gone. I doubt Canadian politicians, with an election looming, are as willing to throw their supporters under the bus.

by deeg 2y ago

I don't think anyone is saying it won't hurt Canada; trade wars hurt both sides. The discussion is whether Canada can make it hurt Trumps supporters enough to pressure him to remove the tariffs.

dismalaf 2y ago

My perspective is as a Canadian. The US GDP per capita is 7% above pre-Covid numbers, Canada's is 2% below. Or you can say our GDP per capita has diverged by 9% since COVID. Canada's cost of living is actually untenable right now. Canada can't hold the line long enough to do anything to the US. We'll do it for political reasons until the election this year but it's going to decimate our economy even further.

tokioyoyo 2y ago
Cost of living in Canada has been untenable for the past decade. The choice is to bend the knee or suffer more with the hopes you’ll at least go down with pride. I have no idea how the hell the government across the border got their citizens to start hating on us within a couple of weeks.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  They didn’t. The vast majority of Americans don’t hate Canadians. You don’t need a popular referendum to set tariffs, the president can just do it. One of the many downsides of electing a crazy person as president.
  - tokioyoyo 2y ago
    Fair, apologies for having a knee-jerk reaction to it. It just sucks to scroll a tiny bit on forums and get bombarded with pure hate. I understand that it doesn’t represent the majority, but makes you scratch your head and think why so many level headed people are willing to throw away trust that was built throughout decades. Like I get the whole America First approach, and understand the desire to build out the manufacturing locally… but is it worth it to turn away all of your allies and make them get closer with the actual super power that wants to dethrone you?
    - dismalaf 2y ago
      To be fair Canada and most of the EU haven't come close to fulfillment our NATO requirements since, well, ever. For better or worse most of the free world freeloads off the US' security shield. Canada is especially egregious, where we have a bunch of tariffs and regulations protecting certain Canadian corporations while expecting the US to protect us and buy our products. All the while smugly criticizing them for it.
      - tokioyoyo 2y ago
        US gets unquestionable currency dominance from US' security shield. Don't get me wrong, but if that was a real concern, they would've started the tariff war 4, 6, 8 years ago. Economical and political headwinds are showing potential Chinese dominance across all manufacturing and export industries. This is the actual time when US is being threatened and trying to bully others, because they can't fix the problem themselves.
      - timeon 2y ago
        > To be fair Canada and most of the EU haven't come close to fulfillment our NATO requirements since, well, ever. For better or worse most of the free world freeloads off the US' security shield. USA is only country that used article 5. Other NATO countries served USA til now not other way around. But it seems that this will end soon. At least in EU, where pro-Russian parties are gaining power.
        dismalaf 2y ago
        The threat of article 5 is powerful... It's the only thing that's prevented Russia from rolling through the Baltics.
      - Timon3 2y ago
        > To be fair Canada and most of the EU haven't come close to fulfillment our NATO requirements since, well, ever. Which requirements are those? I'm aware of an agreed 2% GDP target for 2024, which we've reached. Are there other requirements we haven't reached?
- carbine 2y ago
  sentiment differences are powerful though -- some Americans might rally behind Trump, but if cost of living goes up significantly they won't be patient about it, especially given it's clear that Trump started this whole thing. meanwhile -- excepting those who CAN'T, for whom there may well be govt assistance -- Canadians are angry and will endure (relatively more) pain to prove a point. not saying I want this outcome, but I think the willingness to endure pain to harm the opposing party is different in each country.

psb217 2y ago

You also have to account for how much Trump cares about his supporters vs how much any Canadian politician with sufficient power to act cares about their supporters. Trump is already elected, so whatever self-interested concern he had for his supporters is gone. I doubt Canadian politicians, with an election looming, are as willing to throw their supporters under the bus.