7 ms·

I can't stand his style and I really can't stand his blind Apple - cult thinking. He is leap years better than Gruber and Daring Fireball. His posts are witty

I can't stand his style and I really can't stand his blind Apple - cult thinking. He is leap years better than Gruber and Daring Fireball. His posts are witty without being cynical, and he's frank without being rude. He also has much more to say on entrepreneurship (given his first-hand experience with the App Store).

wyclif 14y ago
I agree; I've thought for a long time that as far as Apple Cult bloggers go, he's better than Gruber on a number of fronts: less groupthink, less cynicism, less David Foster Wallace fanboyism, and less irrational Google hatred. The only thing Gruber has going for him now IMO is his continued Stanley Kubrick advocacy.
- guelo 14y ago
  Gruber does seem to have good inside Apple sources which makes some his predictions worth reading. He's almost an official Apple info release channel.
  - toyg 14y ago
    "Almost"? He clearly coordinates with Apple people. He's to Apple what a surrogate is to a presidential candidate: an attack dog free to say what the candidate will only think. (Note: I don't dislike it, I just take him for the biased source he is.)
    - Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
      > (Note: I don't dislike it, I just take him for the biased source he is.) This is the way to handle it. Gruber is what he is. The fact he spends so much time writing about Apple is both why you should read him if you're interested in Apple (because he's got the time, the knowledge and to a degree the access to have some genuine insight) and why you should be slightly sceptical about what he has to say (because it's almost impossible to spend that much time looking closely at something and not end up taking a side). Plus he's not exactly secretive about his views. Anyone who has read more than 100 words he's written or quoted should be pretty clear about where he's coming from.
- ToesByNoon 14y ago
  Why is it irrational to hate Google?
- mattacular 14y ago
  I don't know who any of these people are but if that was a DFW diss let me know so we can fight it out...
- neutronicus 14y ago
  David Foster Wallace, for my money, is the best writer of the past 25 years, so I can't hold that against Gruber.
  - sanderjd 14y ago
    Sorry to take this further off-topic, but was your choice of 25 years arbitrary or do you actually have someone in mind who Wallace picked up the torch from around that time?
    - neutronicus 14y ago
      I didn't want to pick a period of time that included the '60s, so it wasn't entirely arbitrary, but I didn't have anyone specific in mind. I just don't like to pick arguments with people who like things from the '60s. :p
brusch 14y ago
To be honest - I can't stand Daring Fireball too. They both are not really interesting if you are not into Apple's products. I'm just interested in them from the standpoint of - let's look what's going no over there. And to give my Apple fanboy friends a little bit of grief.
- TillE 14y ago
  As someone who's fairly ambivalent with respect to Apple, Daring Fireball is really good when Gruber is writing in-depth about Apple. It's from a certain perspective, but it's definitely insightful. Sadly, he's utterly vapid and agenda-driven when talking about Android and Google, or writing snarky one-liners responding to criticism of Apple. I'd love to get a feed of Daring Fireball with just the longer pieces.
  - alexwlchan 14y ago
    > I'd love to get a feed of Daring Fireball with just the longer pieces. You’re in luck: http://daringfireball.net/feeds/ http://daringfireball.net/feeds/ > A feed containing only the longer, feature articles (like the “old” DF feed) is available as a less-frequently-updated alternative: http://daringfireball.net/feeds/articles http://daringfireball.net/feeds/articles
  - technoslut 14y ago
    >Sadly, he's utterly vapid and agenda-driven when talking about Android and Google A big part of the element not being discussed is money. Less people who use Apple products probably means less page views for Daring Fireball. I don't think it was a coincidence that the focus of his enmity has turned from MS to Google since Android became a threat to Apple's most financially successful products. The same goes for Marco. I expect him to have a bias towards Apple and developers because he makes his money off of Instapaper for iOS and he is a developer. Gruber is a very talented writer but we all can be colored by how we get our paychecks. I will say that he amuses me which is rare among the blogging cynics.
    - numbsafari 14y ago
elmuchoprez 14y ago
He is leap years better than Gruber and Daring Fireball. Or Jim Dalrymple, who in my opinion, took the on the role of official Apple apologist for the 5by5 Network when Gruber left. He also has much more to say on entrepreneurship (given his first-hand experience with the App Store). He was also the lead developer behind Tumblr during its rise, which I imagine involved some entrepreneurial thinking.
- achompas 14y ago
  The Dalrymple thing doesn't surprise me--once Gruber left, he filled that role of communicating with ardent Apple fans. As for Tumblr, Marco was also a co-founder! I think he has much more to say about businesses than Gruber, who often analyzes businesses by comparing them to Apple.
- ToesByNoon 14y ago
  Jim has better sources than Gruber, he just won't reveal as much which kinda sucks.
- benatkin 14y ago
  Matt Gemmel has earned himself a place among the great Apple apologists, too. http://mattgemmell.com/2012/07/23/closed-for-business/ http://mattgemmell.com/2012/07/23/closed-for-business/
nachteilig 14y ago
I'm with you here. I had to stop reading Gruber completely because I find his arrogance difficult to swallow. Marco can be pretty funny and insightful though.
leephillips 14y ago
Anyone who behaves decently online [1] is leap years ahead of Gruber, who has admitted [2] to receiving fawning personal attention from Apple's PR people. [1] http://lee-phillips.org/music/whoIsTheDick/ http://lee-phillips.org/music/whoIsTheDick/ [2] http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion
- jmduke 14y ago
  I'm sorry, but in the first link, you basically bash a dude's music and then use that as proper grounds for him being sued; demonizing Andy Baio, presumably because you don't particularly like his music. This is not an example of 'behaving decently online'. I wonder how Baio would feel if I downloaded Kind of Bloop and offered it here, free for the taking? Of course, I would put it through a little bit of filtering, to “transform” it first. Would that be fair? You're using the rhetoric of a middle schooler. (That being said, I agree with your point that someone who's unabashedly part of the Apple PR machine isn't a good source for unbiased Apple news/criticism/feedback.)
  - leephillips 14y ago
    Nowhere do I even come close to saying that he deserved to be sued because I don't like his music (which is just a lousy interpretation of someone else's music). That's just silly. He deserved to be sued because he deliberately violated a photographer's copyright. And I don't "demonize" Baio at all; I just think he made some mistakes and was rightfully compelled to pay for them. I might come close to demonizing Gruber, because of the nasty way he attacked Maisel. (These escalating internet attacks on the photographer, who is in his 70s, actually turned into physical attacks on his house, orchestrated by another of Baio's supporters.) My "middle school" passage that you quote was meant as a parody of Baio's arguments that, at least in my judgement, amount to the claim that a trivial modification of someone else's original artistic work gives you the right to distribute the modified work. Out of context it might sound juvenile, but it was meant to goad people into thinking about his claims of "fair use".
    - 14y ago
guelo 14y ago
I agree but I think this is an unfair comparison. Marco is a talented entrepreneur and developer, his main effort isn't blogging as with Gruber.
- runjake 14y ago
  I don't know whether he is for sure, but I have noticed that he tweets and blogs (and sometimes podcasts) throughout the day. And he's clearly being mentored by or adopting Gruber's blogging and advertisement style. If his main effort is, at this time, programming, I bet it won't be for long. He's clearly trying to build a Gruber-esque personal brand.
  - wisty 14y ago
    Notice how many times he links to instapaper?
thechut 14y ago
If I could punch just one tech blogger squarely in the face, it would without a doubt be John Grubber. Who would you choose? Disclaimer: This is in no way meant as threat of any kind of harm to Grubber or anyone else. It is simply a hypothetical thought experiment.
- beatpanda 14y ago
  Easy: M.G. Siegler

wyclif 14y ago

I agree; I've thought for a long time that as far as Apple Cult bloggers go, he's better than Gruber on a number of fronts: less groupthink, less cynicism, less David Foster Wallace fanboyism, and less irrational Google hatred. The only thing Gruber has going for him now IMO is his continued Stanley Kubrick advocacy.

guelo 14y ago
Gruber does seem to have good inside Apple sources which makes some his predictions worth reading. He's almost an official Apple info release channel.
- toyg 14y ago
  "Almost"? He clearly coordinates with Apple people. He's to Apple what a surrogate is to a presidential candidate: an attack dog free to say what the candidate will only think. (Note: I don't dislike it, I just take him for the biased source he is.)
  - Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
    > (Note: I don't dislike it, I just take him for the biased source he is.) This is the way to handle it. Gruber is what he is. The fact he spends so much time writing about Apple is both why you should read him if you're interested in Apple (because he's got the time, the knowledge and to a degree the access to have some genuine insight) and why you should be slightly sceptical about what he has to say (because it's almost impossible to spend that much time looking closely at something and not end up taking a side). Plus he's not exactly secretive about his views. Anyone who has read more than 100 words he's written or quoted should be pretty clear about where he's coming from.
ToesByNoon 14y ago
Why is it irrational to hate Google?
mattacular 14y ago
I don't know who any of these people are but if that was a DFW diss let me know so we can fight it out...
neutronicus 14y ago
David Foster Wallace, for my money, is the best writer of the past 25 years, so I can't hold that against Gruber.
- sanderjd 14y ago
  Sorry to take this further off-topic, but was your choice of 25 years arbitrary or do you actually have someone in mind who Wallace picked up the torch from around that time?
  - neutronicus 14y ago
    I didn't want to pick a period of time that included the '60s, so it wasn't entirely arbitrary, but I didn't have anyone specific in mind. I just don't like to pick arguments with people who like things from the '60s. :p

brusch 14y ago

To be honest - I can't stand Daring Fireball too. They both are not really interesting if you are not into Apple's products. I'm just interested in them from the standpoint of - let's look what's going no over there. And to give my Apple fanboy friends a little bit of grief.

TillE 14y ago
As someone who's fairly ambivalent with respect to Apple, Daring Fireball is really good when Gruber is writing in-depth about Apple. It's from a certain perspective, but it's definitely insightful. Sadly, he's utterly vapid and agenda-driven when talking about Android and Google, or writing snarky one-liners responding to criticism of Apple. I'd love to get a feed of Daring Fireball with just the longer pieces.
- alexwlchan 14y ago
  > I'd love to get a feed of Daring Fireball with just the longer pieces. You’re in luck: http://daringfireball.net/feeds/ http://daringfireball.net/feeds/ > A feed containing only the longer, feature articles (like the “old” DF feed) is available as a less-frequently-updated alternative: http://daringfireball.net/feeds/articles http://daringfireball.net/feeds/articles
- technoslut 14y ago
  >Sadly, he's utterly vapid and agenda-driven when talking about Android and Google A big part of the element not being discussed is money. Less people who use Apple products probably means less page views for Daring Fireball. I don't think it was a coincidence that the focus of his enmity has turned from MS to Google since Android became a threat to Apple's most financially successful products. The same goes for Marco. I expect him to have a bias towards Apple and developers because he makes his money off of Instapaper for iOS and he is a developer. Gruber is a very talented writer but we all can be colored by how we get our paychecks. I will say that he amuses me which is rare among the blogging cynics.
  - numbsafari 14y ago

elmuchoprez 14y ago

He is leap years better than Gruber and Daring Fireball. Or Jim Dalrymple, who in my opinion, took the on the role of official Apple apologist for the 5by5 Network when Gruber left. He also has much more to say on entrepreneurship (given his first-hand experience with the App Store). He was also the lead developer behind Tumblr during its rise, which I imagine involved some entrepreneurial thinking.

achompas 14y ago
The Dalrymple thing doesn't surprise me--once Gruber left, he filled that role of communicating with ardent Apple fans. As for Tumblr, Marco was also a co-founder! I think he has much more to say about businesses than Gruber, who often analyzes businesses by comparing them to Apple.
ToesByNoon 14y ago
Jim has better sources than Gruber, he just won't reveal as much which kinda sucks.
benatkin 14y ago
Matt Gemmel has earned himself a place among the great Apple apologists, too. http://mattgemmell.com/2012/07/23/closed-for-business/ http://mattgemmell.com/2012/07/23/closed-for-business/

nachteilig 14y ago

I'm with you here. I had to stop reading Gruber completely because I find his arrogance difficult to swallow. Marco can be pretty funny and insightful though.

leephillips 14y ago

Anyone who behaves decently online [1] is leap years ahead of Gruber, who has admitted [2] to receiving fawning personal attention from Apple's PR people. [1] http://lee-phillips.org/music/whoIsTheDick/ http://lee-phillips.org/music/whoIsTheDick/ [2] http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion

jmduke 14y ago
I'm sorry, but in the first link, you basically bash a dude's music and then use that as proper grounds for him being sued; demonizing Andy Baio, presumably because you don't particularly like his music. This is not an example of 'behaving decently online'. I wonder how Baio would feel if I downloaded Kind of Bloop and offered it here, free for the taking? Of course, I would put it through a little bit of filtering, to “transform” it first. Would that be fair? You're using the rhetoric of a middle schooler. (That being said, I agree with your point that someone who's unabashedly part of the Apple PR machine isn't a good source for unbiased Apple news/criticism/feedback.)
- leephillips 14y ago
  Nowhere do I even come close to saying that he deserved to be sued because I don't like his music (which is just a lousy interpretation of someone else's music). That's just silly. He deserved to be sued because he deliberately violated a photographer's copyright. And I don't "demonize" Baio at all; I just think he made some mistakes and was rightfully compelled to pay for them. I might come close to demonizing Gruber, because of the nasty way he attacked Maisel. (These escalating internet attacks on the photographer, who is in his 70s, actually turned into physical attacks on his house, orchestrated by another of Baio's supporters.) My "middle school" passage that you quote was meant as a parody of Baio's arguments that, at least in my judgement, amount to the claim that a trivial modification of someone else's original artistic work gives you the right to distribute the modified work. Out of context it might sound juvenile, but it was meant to goad people into thinking about his claims of "fair use".
  - 14y ago

guelo 14y ago

I agree but I think this is an unfair comparison. Marco is a talented entrepreneur and developer, his main effort isn't blogging as with Gruber.

runjake 14y ago
I don't know whether he is for sure, but I have noticed that he tweets and blogs (and sometimes podcasts) throughout the day. And he's clearly being mentored by or adopting Gruber's blogging and advertisement style. If his main effort is, at this time, programming, I bet it won't be for long. He's clearly trying to build a Gruber-esque personal brand.
- wisty 14y ago
  Notice how many times he links to instapaper?

thechut 14y ago

If I could punch just one tech blogger squarely in the face, it would without a doubt be John Grubber. Who would you choose? Disclaimer: This is in no way meant as threat of any kind of harm to Grubber or anyone else. It is simply a hypothetical thought experiment.

beatpanda 14y ago
Easy: M.G. Siegler