4 ms·

I have been wondering about this in the context of being ready for work in the age of LLM‘s. What nobody can deny is that they memorize information at a superh

by orzig 2y ago

I have been wondering about this in the context of being ready for work in the age of LLM‘s. What nobody can deny is that they memorize information at a superhuman level, so it might reduce the value of having done that myself. On the other hand, “couldn’t you just google that“has been an erroneous retort to the value of space repetition for decades, during which I’ve gotten a lot of value out of doing. has been a erroneous retort to the value of space repetition for decades, during which I’ve gotten a lot of value out of doing it.

hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
A software-based spaced repetition system probably could have made someone appear borderline superhuman in the era before Google. Google cleared a lot of this low-hanging fruit, and then it became "merely" the best way to cram facts into your noggin so you can become an expert at whatever you want, which is still extremely valuable. Your doctor probably used SRS to get through medical school, and now look at how much money they're making. For most professions, nothing -> Google was probably a much bigger jump than Google -> LLMs, so I expect that to still largely be the case. TL;DR: SRS is, perhaps counterintuitively, most useful for those of us seeking true mastery over something.
- cratermoon 2y ago
  > it became "merely" the best way to cram facts into your noggin so you can become an expert at whatever you want Counterpoint: a noggin full of facts does not an expert make. Makes a good cocktail party trick, or Jeopardy champion. Expert in a subject? Definitely not.
  - hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
    Necessary, but not sufficient. Even the greatest genius can't operate without any raw material in there.
szundi 2y ago
What you remember becomes part of your thinking and reasoning. So no, why would you google something if it doesn’t come to mind as something relevant.
- bluGill 2y ago
  You can't know it all so choose what is important to know and what you look up.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    I would even go as far as to say, you don’t know something, so you look it up, and now you know the thing. Onus to remember notwithstanding, I personally feel like when I look something up I didn’t know, it tends to stick. Except for the regex syntax, and ffmpeg pipelines, I won’t ever dedicate brain-space for those. So I suppose I contradict myself. Huh. Nuts.
- implmntatio 2y ago
  it doesn't have to become part of your thinking and reasoning, even in context, even though it does carry some actual weight. because it can be (over)shadowed. something that some people currently learn to code into LLMs, if I understood layering and quantization more or less superficially correct. so, you might want to google it, because some part in the back of your head itches to remember something that is actually relevant and located on the rim (of the knowledge graph) of something that you do remember. fucked up indexing. an 8 hour rabbit hole and that one of 43 links you didn't open in a new tab.
- lm28469 2y ago
  > What you remember becomes part of your thinking and reasoning I find it also true for books, you unconsciously internalize things by reading the full book VS reading a summary. I sometimes reread books I read 10+ years ago and I often have these "ah so that's where I got this idea from". Most of the time it isn't even about the main point of the book, it can be a sentence or a dialogue that left an imprint on your psyche I'd hate to be a simple proxy between google/llms and the real world
yapyap 2y ago
LLMs memorize information at a superhuman level the same way an 8 tb harddisk does. Silly.
- iwsk 2y ago
  Actually it's way easier to search for the information in an LLM compared to an 8 tb harddisk. The search is vague, and the result is nondeterministic, but in a lot of cases it's still the better method. https://fchollet.substack.com/i/137628402/llms-as-program-databases https://fchollet.substack.com/i/137628402/llms-as-program-da... I like the way this article puts it. "LLM is a continuous, interpolative kind of database"
  - cratermoon 2y ago
    > the result is nondeterministic That funny way to spell "hallucinated"
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
hombre_fatal 2y ago
It seems pretty easy to illuminate this question once you consider concrete examples. For example, neither google nor an LLM replaces the utility of building your own vocabulary so that you can express yourself in a foreign language when you're in convo with someone.
- sunnybeetroot 2y ago
  If the goal is for you to be understood in a foreign language, this will become possible in the near future with real time translation with something as simple as an AirPod. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzUnEfiIqP4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzUnEfiIqP4
  - randomname11 2y ago
    Sure but being understood and expressing yourself are not the same.
    - hnisoss 2y ago
      sunnybeetroot explicitly said being "if your goal is being understood then x".
TwoNineFive 2y ago
> during which I’ve gotten a lot of value out of doing. has been a erroneous retort to the value of space repetition for decades, during which I’ve gotten a lot of value out of doing it. I imagine spaced repetition is not actually a cause of repeating yourself. That's just caused by being too lazy to proofread before you post.
veqq 2y ago
In the same way that notation is a tool of thought [1] actually knowing facts paves routes[2] of possibility and impossibility (instead of pausing everything to research or drowning in too many paths). It's akin to seeing 37*55 and knowing it won't be a 20 digit number, greatly reducing your search space. Imagine feeding someone without knowing what they like (how do you choose something?) vs. "allergic to dairy"? [1] https://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm https://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm [2] https://alexalejandre.com/programming/forge-deeper-thought/ https://alexalejandre.com/programming/forge-deeper-thought/

by orzig 2y ago

hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago

A software-based spaced repetition system probably could have made someone appear borderline superhuman in the era before Google. Google cleared a lot of this low-hanging fruit, and then it became "merely" the best way to cram facts into your noggin so you can become an expert at whatever you want, which is still extremely valuable. Your doctor probably used SRS to get through medical school, and now look at how much money they're making. For most professions, nothing -> Google was probably a much bigger jump than Google -> LLMs, so I expect that to still largely be the case. TL;DR: SRS is, perhaps counterintuitively, most useful for those of us seeking true mastery over something.

cratermoon 2y ago
> it became "merely" the best way to cram facts into your noggin so you can become an expert at whatever you want Counterpoint: a noggin full of facts does not an expert make. Makes a good cocktail party trick, or Jeopardy champion. Expert in a subject? Definitely not.
- hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
  Necessary, but not sufficient. Even the greatest genius can't operate without any raw material in there.

szundi 2y ago

What you remember becomes part of your thinking and reasoning. So no, why would you google something if it doesn’t come to mind as something relevant.

bluGill 2y ago
You can't know it all so choose what is important to know and what you look up.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  I would even go as far as to say, you don’t know something, so you look it up, and now you know the thing. Onus to remember notwithstanding, I personally feel like when I look something up I didn’t know, it tends to stick. Except for the regex syntax, and ffmpeg pipelines, I won’t ever dedicate brain-space for those. So I suppose I contradict myself. Huh. Nuts.
implmntatio 2y ago
it doesn't have to become part of your thinking and reasoning, even in context, even though it does carry some actual weight. because it can be (over)shadowed. something that some people currently learn to code into LLMs, if I understood layering and quantization more or less superficially correct. so, you might want to google it, because some part in the back of your head itches to remember something that is actually relevant and located on the rim (of the knowledge graph) of something that you do remember. fucked up indexing. an 8 hour rabbit hole and that one of 43 links you didn't open in a new tab.
lm28469 2y ago
> What you remember becomes part of your thinking and reasoning I find it also true for books, you unconsciously internalize things by reading the full book VS reading a summary. I sometimes reread books I read 10+ years ago and I often have these "ah so that's where I got this idea from". Most of the time it isn't even about the main point of the book, it can be a sentence or a dialogue that left an imprint on your psyche I'd hate to be a simple proxy between google/llms and the real world

yapyap 2y ago

LLMs memorize information at a superhuman level the same way an 8 tb harddisk does. Silly.

iwsk 2y ago
Actually it's way easier to search for the information in an LLM compared to an 8 tb harddisk. The search is vague, and the result is nondeterministic, but in a lot of cases it's still the better method. https://fchollet.substack.com/i/137628402/llms-as-program-databases https://fchollet.substack.com/i/137628402/llms-as-program-da... I like the way this article puts it. "LLM is a continuous, interpolative kind of database"
- cratermoon 2y ago
  > the result is nondeterministic That funny way to spell "hallucinated"
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

hombre_fatal 2y ago

It seems pretty easy to illuminate this question once you consider concrete examples. For example, neither google nor an LLM replaces the utility of building your own vocabulary so that you can express yourself in a foreign language when you're in convo with someone.

sunnybeetroot 2y ago
If the goal is for you to be understood in a foreign language, this will become possible in the near future with real time translation with something as simple as an AirPod. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzUnEfiIqP4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzUnEfiIqP4
- randomname11 2y ago
  Sure but being understood and expressing yourself are not the same.
  - hnisoss 2y ago
    sunnybeetroot explicitly said being "if your goal is being understood then x".

TwoNineFive 2y ago

> during which I’ve gotten a lot of value out of doing. has been a erroneous retort to the value of space repetition for decades, during which I’ve gotten a lot of value out of doing it. I imagine spaced repetition is not actually a cause of repeating yourself. That's just caused by being too lazy to proofread before you post.

veqq 2y ago

In the same way that notation is a tool of thought [1] actually knowing facts paves routes[2] of possibility and impossibility (instead of pausing everything to research or drowning in too many paths). It's akin to seeing 37*55 and knowing it won't be a 20 digit number, greatly reducing your search space. Imagine feeding someone without knowing what they like (how do you choose something?) vs. "allergic to dairy"? [1] https://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm https://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm [2] https://alexalejandre.com/programming/forge-deeper-thought/ https://alexalejandre.com/programming/forge-deeper-thought/