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Hacker News Guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politi

Hacker News Guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."

zfg 2y ago
So much of the tech industry is now precisely about politics and power. Hacker News cannot be afraid to look at it, cannot run away from it, and, if you're part of the tech industry, must take responsibility for it.
- pvg 2y ago
  Most things are in some way connected to politics and power and they're regularly discussed here, along with their political implications and power dynamics. That still doesn't mean every news story is worth discussing here given that it's a forum with the explicit goal of not discussing most news stories.
  - zfg 2y ago
    But it's not in "some" way connected. It's now explicitly and directly connected. You can't look the other way anymore.
    - pvg 2y ago
      Look away from what? Musk and his antics show up in threads regularly. But it can't be on the front page 5 times a day. There's an article discussing current admin shenanigans on the fp right now.
      - zfg 2y ago
        In your previous post you tried to deny and minimize the problem. That kind of apathy is exactly what you can't afford to look away from.
        pvg 2y ago
        Can you link me the post where I did that because I don't even know what 'problem' you're referring to.
        zfg 2y ago
        This one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907961 The problem is that so much of the tech industry is now precisely about politics and power. The problem is that so much of the tech industry it is now explicitly and directly connected to it. If Hacker News doesn't have the wherewithal to face up the these realities then it really should think about a name change. Maybe "Happy Fun News" or something.
        pvg 2y ago
        I don't understand what that's supposed to be denying. I'm just explaining how HN works. The connection between tech and politics is hardly new and it's discussed on HN all the time. I mentioned there is a current events discussion on the front page right now and I got it wrong - there are two, and that's not counting the many places these topics come up in other threads. I just don't see how you arrive at this 'looking away' business. Not having a thread for every Elon Musk goosestep is not 'looking away', it's just no the sort of place that has a thread for every Elon Musk goosestep. There's links to literally years of explanations of this stuff in my other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907475
        zfg 2y ago
        [flagged]
        2y ago
    - palmfacehn 2y ago
      Does anyone have anything new to say on these topics? We're going around and around in circles. Is there a substantial discussion? Do we learn anything new?
      - zfg 2y ago
        [flagged]
        palmfacehn 2y ago
        Cutting the size and scope of government programs and regulations has more in common with the founding principles of individualist liberalism than collectivist authoritarian ideologies like National Socialism. I would wager that, "Everyone who disagrees with me is a fascist" isn't something new to this site or online discussions generally. To the contrary it is a tired trope. It does not inform us or stimulate a new discussion. Therefore, before making such comparisons, the accusers should have substantial evidence. The burden of proof should be much higher than your article's, "Appears to make gesture".
        zfg 2y ago
        > It does not inform us or stimulate a new discussion. But someone connected to the American government flipping two fascist salutes at the inauguration of the new president sure does.
        CRConrad 2y ago
        > "Appears to make gesture" "Appears"??? It's on fucking videotape! Are you saying his arm was actually down by his side all the time, and it just "appears" as if he's raising it? (Perspective? Refraction? Water will find its level?) And "gesture"??? Pray tell, what fucking "gesture" is that he "appears" to be making, and why are you resorting to "gesture" in stead of acknowledging what exactly it is we're talking about? As someone said in a nearby sub-thread, ~[1]"many of his weird sycophants seem to be on HN"... ___ [1]: Quoted from memory, so probably not exact.
    - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      Maybe so. But I still don't have to talk about it here. There's lots of places to talk about politics, and Musk, ad nauseum. HN is supposed to be about something else. Politics may be destroying a large number of things right now; I don't want it to destroy this site too.
      - zfg 2y ago
        Politics is a major part of the tech industry now. It's what it has become. Building any kind of ethical framework for hardware and software engineering necessitates looking at the ugly side. If Hacker News is genuinely not up to that then it's falling short.
        AnimalMuppet 2y ago
        It may be falling short of what you think it should be. A bunch of the rest of us don't think that, though. You may feel strongly about what you think we should do, but you don't get to tell the rest of us what the site should be about. You don't get to tear up the community guidelines and write your own. Let HN be what it is. If that doesn't match what you want, go find somewhere else that does.
        zfg 2y ago
        > Let HN be what it is. I will not let it be dishonest.
        CRConrad 2y ago
        > It may be falling short of what you think it should be. It may not be falling short of what you think it should be. > A bunch of the rest of us don't think that, though. And if a bunch of us do think that, what then? > You may feel strongly about what you think we should do, but you don't get to tell the rest of us what the site should be about. Sure, but neither does anyone else. Like, ehm, you. > You don't get to tear up the community guidelines and write your own. What if many of us think they might need a few changes? What if most of us do? I mean, you seem to be arguing on the assumption that nobody, or at least almost nobody, does. Do you have any statistics to back that up? > Let HN be what it is. (At the risk of sounding somewhat Clintonian:) So what "is" HN? If you're going to say "What it's always been!", then... No. It already isn't. Becasuse nothing ever is "what it's always been". Eternal constants don't exist; everything changes all the time. (Guy I used to know back in Ephesus used to say that.) HN now is already something very different than what we got user IDs on back in 2013, and it ain't gonna stop changing. So where were you with your resistance to change for the last dozen years or so? > If that doesn't match what you want, go find somewhere else that does. "Just because the Democratic Party is actually advocating labour camps for capitalists and mandatory sex change operations for everybody now is no reason for you to demand it should change! Let it be what it is, and if that doesn't match what you want, go find somewhere else that does!" "Just because the Republican Party is actually advocating concentration camps for immigrants and mandatory megachurch membership for everybody now is no reason for you to demand it should change! Let it be what it is, and if that doesn't match what you want, go find somewhere else that does!" See how ridiculous that is? So no, that's not how any of this works.
- dang 2y ago
  Note those words most and probably. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426
lawn 2y ago
USA turning into a Russian style oligarchy fits neatly in the "interesting new phenomenon".
rsynnott 2y ago
I mean, it does seem that Musk stories get flagged way more rapidly than other Trump misbehaviour stories; in practice I suspect that a certain amount of the user base is comprised of his weird sycophants.
bambax 2y ago
> unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon I guess the second coming of Nazism to an unprecedented scale and without any serious opposition anywhere is 1/ uninteresting and 2/ absolutely irrelevant to tech.

zfg 2y ago

So much of the tech industry is now precisely about politics and power. Hacker News cannot be afraid to look at it, cannot run away from it, and, if you're part of the tech industry, must take responsibility for it.

pvg 2y ago
Most things are in some way connected to politics and power and they're regularly discussed here, along with their political implications and power dynamics. That still doesn't mean every news story is worth discussing here given that it's a forum with the explicit goal of not discussing most news stories.
- zfg 2y ago
  But it's not in "some" way connected. It's now explicitly and directly connected. You can't look the other way anymore.
  - pvg 2y ago
    Look away from what? Musk and his antics show up in threads regularly. But it can't be on the front page 5 times a day. There's an article discussing current admin shenanigans on the fp right now.
    - zfg 2y ago
      In your previous post you tried to deny and minimize the problem. That kind of apathy is exactly what you can't afford to look away from.
      - pvg 2y ago
        Can you link me the post where I did that because I don't even know what 'problem' you're referring to.
        zfg 2y ago
        This one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907961 The problem is that so much of the tech industry is now precisely about politics and power. The problem is that so much of the tech industry it is now explicitly and directly connected to it. If Hacker News doesn't have the wherewithal to face up the these realities then it really should think about a name change. Maybe "Happy Fun News" or something.
        pvg 2y ago
        I don't understand what that's supposed to be denying. I'm just explaining how HN works. The connection between tech and politics is hardly new and it's discussed on HN all the time. I mentioned there is a current events discussion on the front page right now and I got it wrong - there are two, and that's not counting the many places these topics come up in other threads. I just don't see how you arrive at this 'looking away' business. Not having a thread for every Elon Musk goosestep is not 'looking away', it's just no the sort of place that has a thread for every Elon Musk goosestep. There's links to literally years of explanations of this stuff in my other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42907475
        zfg 2y ago
        [flagged]
        2y ago
  - palmfacehn 2y ago
    Does anyone have anything new to say on these topics? We're going around and around in circles. Is there a substantial discussion? Do we learn anything new?
    - zfg 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - palmfacehn 2y ago
        Cutting the size and scope of government programs and regulations has more in common with the founding principles of individualist liberalism than collectivist authoritarian ideologies like National Socialism. I would wager that, "Everyone who disagrees with me is a fascist" isn't something new to this site or online discussions generally. To the contrary it is a tired trope. It does not inform us or stimulate a new discussion. Therefore, before making such comparisons, the accusers should have substantial evidence. The burden of proof should be much higher than your article's, "Appears to make gesture".
        zfg 2y ago
        > It does not inform us or stimulate a new discussion. But someone connected to the American government flipping two fascist salutes at the inauguration of the new president sure does.
        CRConrad 2y ago
        > "Appears to make gesture" "Appears"??? It's on fucking videotape! Are you saying his arm was actually down by his side all the time, and it just "appears" as if he's raising it? (Perspective? Refraction? Water will find its level?) And "gesture"??? Pray tell, what fucking "gesture" is that he "appears" to be making, and why are you resorting to "gesture" in stead of acknowledging what exactly it is we're talking about? As someone said in a nearby sub-thread, ~[1]"many of his weird sycophants seem to be on HN"... ___ [1]: Quoted from memory, so probably not exact.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    Maybe so. But I still don't have to talk about it here. There's lots of places to talk about politics, and Musk, ad nauseum. HN is supposed to be about something else. Politics may be destroying a large number of things right now; I don't want it to destroy this site too.
    - zfg 2y ago
      Politics is a major part of the tech industry now. It's what it has become. Building any kind of ethical framework for hardware and software engineering necessitates looking at the ugly side. If Hacker News is genuinely not up to that then it's falling short.
      - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
        It may be falling short of what you think it should be. A bunch of the rest of us don't think that, though. You may feel strongly about what you think we should do, but you don't get to tell the rest of us what the site should be about. You don't get to tear up the community guidelines and write your own. Let HN be what it is. If that doesn't match what you want, go find somewhere else that does.
        zfg 2y ago
        > Let HN be what it is. I will not let it be dishonest.
        CRConrad 2y ago
        > It may be falling short of what you think it should be. It may not be falling short of what you think it should be. > A bunch of the rest of us don't think that, though. And if a bunch of us do think that, what then? > You may feel strongly about what you think we should do, but you don't get to tell the rest of us what the site should be about. Sure, but neither does anyone else. Like, ehm, you. > You don't get to tear up the community guidelines and write your own. What if many of us think they might need a few changes? What if most of us do? I mean, you seem to be arguing on the assumption that nobody, or at least almost nobody, does. Do you have any statistics to back that up? > Let HN be what it is. (At the risk of sounding somewhat Clintonian:) So what "is" HN? If you're going to say "What it's always been!", then... No. It already isn't. Becasuse nothing ever is "what it's always been". Eternal constants don't exist; everything changes all the time. (Guy I used to know back in Ephesus used to say that.) HN now is already something very different than what we got user IDs on back in 2013, and it ain't gonna stop changing. So where were you with your resistance to change for the last dozen years or so? > If that doesn't match what you want, go find somewhere else that does. "Just because the Democratic Party is actually advocating labour camps for capitalists and mandatory sex change operations for everybody now is no reason for you to demand it should change! Let it be what it is, and if that doesn't match what you want, go find somewhere else that does!" "Just because the Republican Party is actually advocating concentration camps for immigrants and mandatory megachurch membership for everybody now is no reason for you to demand it should change! Let it be what it is, and if that doesn't match what you want, go find somewhere else that does!" See how ridiculous that is? So no, that's not how any of this works.
dang 2y ago
Note those words most and probably. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426

lawn 2y ago

USA turning into a Russian style oligarchy fits neatly in the "interesting new phenomenon".

rsynnott 2y ago

I mean, it does seem that Musk stories get flagged way more rapidly than other Trump misbehaviour stories; in practice I suspect that a certain amount of the user base is comprised of his weird sycophants.

bambax 2y ago

> unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon I guess the second coming of Nazism to an unprecedented scale and without any serious opposition anywhere is 1/ uninteresting and 2/ absolutely irrelevant to tech.