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What "illiberal left" benefits from this? Half of the reason we are at this point is the nonstop equivocation that goes on in our discourse. Lay this at the fe

What "illiberal left" benefits from this? Half of the reason we are at this point is the nonstop equivocation that goes on in our discourse. Lay this at the feet of who caused it.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> What "illiberal left" benefits from this Banning terms from general and academic use originated, in modern America, from the illiberal left’s cancel culture. I’m not saying they caused this—it’s not novel that illiberalism leads to censorship. But the tactics both groups use when they get their hands on power are remarkably similar. > the nonstop equivocation You probably mean false equation. I don’t believe I am, because the illiberal left never came into power. At least not federally. Liberals on the left successfully checked our radicals in a way the right did not. (If you want policy fusion between the illiberal left and right, it’s in RFK Jr. Marin County sees eye to eye with MAGA on e.g. vaccines.)
- asddubs 2y ago
  before cancel culture it was satanic panic from the right. This is not a new phenomenon, and I don't think it has much to do with the shift towards right wing extremism
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - asddubs 2y ago
      my point was less that it's a right or left wing thing in this case, but that it's not a new phenomenon
- exe34 2y ago
  cancel culture from the left came from grassroot movements - kids at uni get offended and they ban certain words and heckle certain speakers. cancel culture from the right is coming from POTUS. can you tell me if you think there's any difference at all between the two?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > cancel culture from the right is coming from POTUS Not really. Trump is channeling something that probably came from the book-banning religious conservative crowd.
    - exe34 2y ago
      "the buck stops here". he controls the most powerful army in history. I don't care whose arm is reaching up his colon to move his lips - he's responsible. it's his signature on the orders.
      - TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
        He clearly has dementia on top of raging NPD and I'd honestly be surprised if he knows what day it is.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        Nobody is arguing with you on that. You said cancel culture was grassroots while this is not. My point is they both started grassroots. This one just reached higher.
    - noobermin 2y ago
      The origin is not the point, the power differential is. Hence why this is an equivocation.
  - jprete 2y ago
    Cancel culture was systematically supported and promoted by the most powerful people in our society.
throwaway5292 2y ago
[flagged]
- immibis 2y ago
  A Nazi punching a Jew in the face is much worse than a Jew punching a Nazi in the face. I hope you agree with this. The latter is even, arguably, good.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    That's a matter of context, and raises the question of whether they're in a civil society or a war (or both at once). In principle in a civil society nobody should be punching anybody in the face and mitigating circumstances like the other person being a nazi are only details. But see Sartre's feelings about living alongside nazis in occupied France: the were very polite and pleasant, and the whole situation was tense and awkward because you're unsure of your duty in that situation - is it war or not?
    - Larrikin 2y ago
      There is no such thing as a civil society when one group believes the other should be segregated, enslaved, have genocide committed against them, etc. That is just gas lighting one group so that they don't know they are the frog in the boiling pot. Trying to be civil in a tolerance paradox situation just makes sure you're eliminated, but maybe just not today.
    - tnias23 2y ago
      Is this a quote from Sartre, or just an interpretation? I looked for it and couldn’t find it, beyond maybe representing his “Paris under the occupation”
      - card_zero 2y ago
        No, not a quote, a very poor recollection of casually reading about this. He was keen on resisting, tried to organize a group (of writers?) and made some proposals for violent acts (assassinations?) but they couldn't get it together to do anything.

What "illiberal left" benefits from this? Half of the reason we are at this point is the nonstop equivocation that goes on in our discourse. Lay this at the feet of who caused it.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> What "illiberal left" benefits from this Banning terms from general and academic use originated, in modern America, from the illiberal left’s cancel culture. I’m not saying they caused this—it’s not novel that illiberalism leads to censorship. But the tactics both groups use when they get their hands on power are remarkably similar. > the nonstop equivocation You probably mean false equation. I don’t believe I am, because the illiberal left never came into power. At least not federally. Liberals on the left successfully checked our radicals in a way the right did not. (If you want policy fusion between the illiberal left and right, it’s in RFK Jr. Marin County sees eye to eye with MAGA on e.g. vaccines.)

asddubs 2y ago
before cancel culture it was satanic panic from the right. This is not a new phenomenon, and I don't think it has much to do with the shift towards right wing extremism
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - asddubs 2y ago
    my point was less that it's a right or left wing thing in this case, but that it's not a new phenomenon
exe34 2y ago
cancel culture from the left came from grassroot movements - kids at uni get offended and they ban certain words and heckle certain speakers. cancel culture from the right is coming from POTUS. can you tell me if you think there's any difference at all between the two?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > cancel culture from the right is coming from POTUS Not really. Trump is channeling something that probably came from the book-banning religious conservative crowd.
  - exe34 2y ago
    "the buck stops here". he controls the most powerful army in history. I don't care whose arm is reaching up his colon to move his lips - he's responsible. it's his signature on the orders.
    - TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
      He clearly has dementia on top of raging NPD and I'd honestly be surprised if he knows what day it is.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Nobody is arguing with you on that. You said cancel culture was grassroots while this is not. My point is they both started grassroots. This one just reached higher.
  - noobermin 2y ago
    The origin is not the point, the power differential is. Hence why this is an equivocation.
- jprete 2y ago
  Cancel culture was systematically supported and promoted by the most powerful people in our society.

throwaway5292 2y ago

[flagged]

immibis 2y ago
A Nazi punching a Jew in the face is much worse than a Jew punching a Nazi in the face. I hope you agree with this. The latter is even, arguably, good.
- card_zero 2y ago
  That's a matter of context, and raises the question of whether they're in a civil society or a war (or both at once). In principle in a civil society nobody should be punching anybody in the face and mitigating circumstances like the other person being a nazi are only details. But see Sartre's feelings about living alongside nazis in occupied France: the were very polite and pleasant, and the whole situation was tense and awkward because you're unsure of your duty in that situation - is it war or not?
  - Larrikin 2y ago
    There is no such thing as a civil society when one group believes the other should be segregated, enslaved, have genocide committed against them, etc. That is just gas lighting one group so that they don't know they are the frog in the boiling pot. Trying to be civil in a tolerance paradox situation just makes sure you're eliminated, but maybe just not today.
  - tnias23 2y ago
    Is this a quote from Sartre, or just an interpretation? I looked for it and couldn’t find it, beyond maybe representing his “Paris under the occupation”
    - card_zero 2y ago
      No, not a quote, a very poor recollection of casually reading about this. He was keen on resisting, tried to organize a group (of writers?) and made some proposals for violent acts (assassinations?) but they couldn't get it together to do anything.