5 ms·

Thinking from a different perspective, if the Chinese government has banned import of NVIDIA GPU, or downloading U.S. made llm because of so called national sec

by noxs 2y ago

Thinking from a different perspective, if the Chinese government has banned import of NVIDIA GPU, or downloading U.S. made llm because of so called national security reasons, DeepSeek certainly won't make such progress. Today we are even more closed than CCP, what a joke. These elites'/attorney politicians just can't stop their arrogant attitude towards a non-western country's achievement. This is just going to destroy the industry at U.S. We have seen examples of EV and Drones already.

jimmydoe 2y ago
There's no way one country continue to be the only super power / innovation center, one way or the other, we will get to the next world order of innovation. and the path to the new order will not be comfortable, denying reality as a self-defense mechanism will be inevitable for a period of time, hopefully not too long.
UncleOxidant 2y ago
Unless they're prepared to build The Great Firewall around America it's kind of cute that they think they can stop us from downloading these models. And of course stupid to want to try to stop us because if there's something to be learned from them they need to be distributed widely so that we can figure out what they've done and where they're headed.
- tempestn 2y ago
  If there's a law against downloading or possessing it, and they're serious about enforcing it, they absolutely can stop you. Yes you could still do it, and maybe even avoid detection, but would you, if getting caught meant prison time?
- emporas 2y ago
  They can sue 3000 people for millions of damages, and that will have the expected effect of banning any illicit downloading of files. I mean, it worked for torrents back in 2002, why shouldn't it work for downloading LLM files? The funny thing is, open source A.I. music doesn't even exist yet, and at some point 2005 to 2008, music related queries were number 1 in google search. When a good music program will be released, no person on the planet will even think of downloading illegal music A.I.s.
  - jasonm23 2y ago
    > it worked for torrents back in 2002 ... hmmm, "worked" ok.
    - obruchez 2y ago
      I guess it worked in the sense that most people listen to music using legal services, instead of still using eMule, BitTorrent, etc.
- drivingmenuts 2y ago
  They already tried to wall the entire Southern border. Guaranteed, some company will step up to the plate and offer to do the same for the internet. The claim will be even easier to sell, considering we've been selling the Chinese the hardware to do it for years. Someone is about to get bloody rich (or richer) stamping on our rights.
ipython 2y ago
I think there are reasoned arguments about TikTok, export control, etc. Heck I’m old enough to remember the Clipper chip debate (go google that if you’re <30yo) But you undercut yourself when you say that we are “more closed” than the ccp. That’s demonstrably false. Just starting with the gfw for one.
bufferoverflow 2y ago
> Today we are even more closed than CCP No, we're not. Not even close. Please stop with the obvious deranged takes.
- noxs 2y ago
  If I have to be precise with my natural languages sure, more closed on certain dimensions Recent years efforts from these politicians make me believe we are heading towards the direction that one day it's not just certain dimensions but fully isolated. Name one Chinese EV you can buy in U.S. Name one U.S. EV you can buy in China Now we want to do the same efforts for llm, not even allow to download to run locally that is specifically from China, and running llm doesn't even need Internet. Honestly I've never heard such legislation in any other country, not even north korea or iran. I can understand ban export, but banning import? Seriously? Even Kim Jong Un is riding with Mercedes.
  - ipython 2y ago
    So. This hasn’t happened yet. It’s just a bill sponsored by a nut job representative. Not a law. Not even put up for debate yet. From your definition, North Korea forbids the “import” of most of the Internet for normal citizens. The fact that Kim jong un can drive around a Mercedes is just showing the supreme leader can get whatever he wants under a despotic state- if through some miracle this stupid bill became law and Trump wanted to run deepseek on his government laptop I’m sure he could do so as well.
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    For every Chinese company banned in the US, I can easily name ten US companies banned in China. Just start naming all the internet companies blocked. So yeah, you finding some examples, and completely ignoring examples of China doing the banning, doesn't prove that the US is worse. Not even close. > Now we want to do the same efforts for llm, not even allow to download to run locally 1) You're confusing proposed bill with actual legislation. Plenty of really retarded bills proposed by all administrations. 2) Even if it somehow became a law, you can't enforce it. How are you going to stop someone from downloading an open source model?
sadeshmukh 2y ago
More closed? Really?
greenie_beans 2y ago
we are obsessed with preventing china from beating us while we are destroying america ourselves

by noxs 2y ago

jimmydoe 2y ago

There's no way one country continue to be the only super power / innovation center, one way or the other, we will get to the next world order of innovation. and the path to the new order will not be comfortable, denying reality as a self-defense mechanism will be inevitable for a period of time, hopefully not too long.

UncleOxidant 2y ago

Unless they're prepared to build The Great Firewall around America it's kind of cute that they think they can stop us from downloading these models. And of course stupid to want to try to stop us because if there's something to be learned from them they need to be distributed widely so that we can figure out what they've done and where they're headed.

tempestn 2y ago
If there's a law against downloading or possessing it, and they're serious about enforcing it, they absolutely can stop you. Yes you could still do it, and maybe even avoid detection, but would you, if getting caught meant prison time?
emporas 2y ago
They can sue 3000 people for millions of damages, and that will have the expected effect of banning any illicit downloading of files. I mean, it worked for torrents back in 2002, why shouldn't it work for downloading LLM files? The funny thing is, open source A.I. music doesn't even exist yet, and at some point 2005 to 2008, music related queries were number 1 in google search. When a good music program will be released, no person on the planet will even think of downloading illegal music A.I.s.
- jasonm23 2y ago
  > it worked for torrents back in 2002 ... hmmm, "worked" ok.
  - obruchez 2y ago
    I guess it worked in the sense that most people listen to music using legal services, instead of still using eMule, BitTorrent, etc.
drivingmenuts 2y ago
They already tried to wall the entire Southern border. Guaranteed, some company will step up to the plate and offer to do the same for the internet. The claim will be even easier to sell, considering we've been selling the Chinese the hardware to do it for years. Someone is about to get bloody rich (or richer) stamping on our rights.

ipython 2y ago

I think there are reasoned arguments about TikTok, export control, etc. Heck I’m old enough to remember the Clipper chip debate (go google that if you’re <30yo) But you undercut yourself when you say that we are “more closed” than the ccp. That’s demonstrably false. Just starting with the gfw for one.

bufferoverflow 2y ago

> Today we are even more closed than CCP No, we're not. Not even close. Please stop with the obvious deranged takes.

noxs 2y ago
If I have to be precise with my natural languages sure, more closed on certain dimensions Recent years efforts from these politicians make me believe we are heading towards the direction that one day it's not just certain dimensions but fully isolated. Name one Chinese EV you can buy in U.S. Name one U.S. EV you can buy in China Now we want to do the same efforts for llm, not even allow to download to run locally that is specifically from China, and running llm doesn't even need Internet. Honestly I've never heard such legislation in any other country, not even north korea or iran. I can understand ban export, but banning import? Seriously? Even Kim Jong Un is riding with Mercedes.
- ipython 2y ago
  So. This hasn’t happened yet. It’s just a bill sponsored by a nut job representative. Not a law. Not even put up for debate yet. From your definition, North Korea forbids the “import” of most of the Internet for normal citizens. The fact that Kim jong un can drive around a Mercedes is just showing the supreme leader can get whatever he wants under a despotic state- if through some miracle this stupid bill became law and Trump wanted to run deepseek on his government laptop I’m sure he could do so as well.
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  For every Chinese company banned in the US, I can easily name ten US companies banned in China. Just start naming all the internet companies blocked. So yeah, you finding some examples, and completely ignoring examples of China doing the banning, doesn't prove that the US is worse. Not even close. > Now we want to do the same efforts for llm, not even allow to download to run locally 1) You're confusing proposed bill with actual legislation. Plenty of really retarded bills proposed by all administrations. 2) Even if it somehow became a law, you can't enforce it. How are you going to stop someone from downloading an open source model?

sadeshmukh 2y ago

More closed? Really?

greenie_beans 2y ago

we are obsessed with preventing china from beating us while we are destroying america ourselves