3 ms·

Interesting insight into Elon Musk but whether or not he actually meant to do "Nazi salutes" seems like speculation.

by olalonde 2y ago

nothrowaways 2y ago
I don't think he is stupid to intentionally do it at that stage.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  A) Ketamine and (probably) Adderall. B) And Hitler wasn't stupid enough to open up a second front on the Soviet Union? Jacked up on meth and morphine likely makes a person rather confident, perhaps perilously so.
archagon 2y ago
An intelligent person makes deductions based on evidence. Low knows Musk's character from working closely with him; knows he's smart enough to understand how his salute would be perceived; sees his close connections with far-right groups (e.g. AfD) around the world; observes his public reaction (Nazi jokes, ha ha) after the controversy. It's not difficult to put two and two together here.
- olalonde 2y ago
  > knows he's smart enough to understand how his salute would be perceived That assumes his salute was a deliberate, calculated act rather than an impulsive gesture in the heat of the moment. Given his visit to Auschwitz, his public statements, his pro-immigration stance, and his numerous Jewish friends and colleagues, there’s far more evidence suggesting he is not a Nazi than the opposite.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Read accounts from the people that were with him on his visit to Auschwitz. It was purely PR. Remember he was kind of forced into because he was being perceived as far right. He didn't just go because he morally thought it was something he should do, he went for PR to rehab his image. https://apnews.com/article/poland-holocaust-musk-auschwitz-64de614f79ab70de0c9f2ac8d509168e https://apnews.com/article/poland-holocaust-musk-auschwitz-6...
  - moogly 2y ago
    What I haven't seen mentioned (and it's cut out of most videos online) is that he also paraphrased the "14 words" directly after. Sure, different enough to have plausible deniability, but I would bet money on that message hitting home in certain circles who know those words well. Nudge nudge, wink wink, and all that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VfYjPzj1Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VfYjPzj1Xw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words Then again, people are not admitting to themselves that it was two full-on Sieg Heils (regardless of the underlying reason for it), so this is less of a smoking gun and I don't even know why I'm writing this post.
  - jhanschoo 2y ago
    Anybody who doesn't intend to give a Nazi salute yet appeared to have done twice at a major event would immediately apologize and repudiate the salute. Musk didn't.
  - archagon 2y ago
    Julie Gray, who was there when he visited Auschwitz, said the following: > I see people posting that Elon was at Auschwitz this time last year - therefore, his recent "gesture" is not antisemitic. I was there, too. Last year. With Elon. I am embarrassed that I have photos of this on my phone. My love, Gidon Lev, was the "special guest" of this photo-op event. We thought, at the time, that it would be good publicity. But I would not share the photo today. I chatted with Elon Musk. I spent hours with him and walked with him through Auschwitz. I stood with him, looking at the nauseating heaps of hair, luggage, and shoes flooded with violet light meant to preserve it. Is Musk an antisemite? People, actually, it's worse - he doesn't care whatsoever. Elon, father of "little X" as he described his freezing cold son to me, literally does not care. He was unmoved by the experience. For Gidon, to be in the place where his father, Ernst, died on a death march - whether shot by the side of the road or having simply collapsed - was a huge deal. Elon did not care. He was about his press junket and his bodyguards. I was ten feet from him as he posed for the cameras of his entourage. He was utterly detached. He cared about how he looked. When he placed a wreath at Auschwitz and Gidon was overlooked, he walked away with the cameras whirring. This is Elon Musk. A sociopath, if ever there was one. To deduce, from this visit, that he is a friend of the Jews is desperately naive. More from her here: https://juliegraysays.substack.com/p/elon-musk https://juliegraysays.substack.com/p/elon-musk
  - toddmatthews 2y ago
    https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/the-truth-about-musk-from-his-biographer https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/the-truth-about-musk-fro...
kevingadd 2y ago
Anything is speculation if you try hard enough to make it speculation.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Watch the salute videos from all angles, including the contorting he does of his face into a look very much not of love. Then watch the videos from the past where he reaches out from his heart and lack of facial contortions. There is zero similarity between his past 'from my heart' and his salutes. Then put his salute videos next to nazi salutes and try to find the difference. Look at the un-natural elbow position, unnatural finger placement, straight rigid wrist, the angels, un-natural timing of the movement.
- olalonde 2y ago
  The prime minister of Israel and the Anti-Defamation League disagree that it was a Nazi salute.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    Clayton Bigsby also approves!
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Actual Nazi's however were celebrating it. I think they are pretty good at recognizing their own, no? Again, I suggest people use their actual eyes. Look at how he did that motion in the past, how he did his salute, and watch the full motion side by side with actual both those and a 'confirmed, 100% certified' nazi salute. Look at it from the multiple angles.
    - olalonde 2y ago
      > Actual Nazi's however were celebrating it. I think they are pretty good at recognizing their own, no? They're not a very bright bunch actually.
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        Your response that people 'not believe their lying eyes' was better than this attempt at humor.

Interesting insight into Elon Musk but whether or not he actually meant to do "Nazi salutes" seems like speculation.

nothrowaways 2y ago

I don't think he is stupid to intentionally do it at that stage.

MrMcCall 2y ago
A) Ketamine and (probably) Adderall. B) And Hitler wasn't stupid enough to open up a second front on the Soviet Union? Jacked up on meth and morphine likely makes a person rather confident, perhaps perilously so.

archagon 2y ago

An intelligent person makes deductions based on evidence. Low knows Musk's character from working closely with him; knows he's smart enough to understand how his salute would be perceived; sees his close connections with far-right groups (e.g. AfD) around the world; observes his public reaction (Nazi jokes, ha ha) after the controversy. It's not difficult to put two and two together here.

olalonde 2y ago
> knows he's smart enough to understand how his salute would be perceived That assumes his salute was a deliberate, calculated act rather than an impulsive gesture in the heat of the moment. Given his visit to Auschwitz, his public statements, his pro-immigration stance, and his numerous Jewish friends and colleagues, there’s far more evidence suggesting he is not a Nazi than the opposite.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  Read accounts from the people that were with him on his visit to Auschwitz. It was purely PR. Remember he was kind of forced into because he was being perceived as far right. He didn't just go because he morally thought it was something he should do, he went for PR to rehab his image. https://apnews.com/article/poland-holocaust-musk-auschwitz-64de614f79ab70de0c9f2ac8d509168e https://apnews.com/article/poland-holocaust-musk-auschwitz-6...
- moogly 2y ago
  What I haven't seen mentioned (and it's cut out of most videos online) is that he also paraphrased the "14 words" directly after. Sure, different enough to have plausible deniability, but I would bet money on that message hitting home in certain circles who know those words well. Nudge nudge, wink wink, and all that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VfYjPzj1Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VfYjPzj1Xw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words Then again, people are not admitting to themselves that it was two full-on Sieg Heils (regardless of the underlying reason for it), so this is less of a smoking gun and I don't even know why I'm writing this post.
- jhanschoo 2y ago
  Anybody who doesn't intend to give a Nazi salute yet appeared to have done twice at a major event would immediately apologize and repudiate the salute. Musk didn't.
- archagon 2y ago
  Julie Gray, who was there when he visited Auschwitz, said the following: > I see people posting that Elon was at Auschwitz this time last year - therefore, his recent "gesture" is not antisemitic. I was there, too. Last year. With Elon. I am embarrassed that I have photos of this on my phone. My love, Gidon Lev, was the "special guest" of this photo-op event. We thought, at the time, that it would be good publicity. But I would not share the photo today. I chatted with Elon Musk. I spent hours with him and walked with him through Auschwitz. I stood with him, looking at the nauseating heaps of hair, luggage, and shoes flooded with violet light meant to preserve it. Is Musk an antisemite? People, actually, it's worse - he doesn't care whatsoever. Elon, father of "little X" as he described his freezing cold son to me, literally does not care. He was unmoved by the experience. For Gidon, to be in the place where his father, Ernst, died on a death march - whether shot by the side of the road or having simply collapsed - was a huge deal. Elon did not care. He was about his press junket and his bodyguards. I was ten feet from him as he posed for the cameras of his entourage. He was utterly detached. He cared about how he looked. When he placed a wreath at Auschwitz and Gidon was overlooked, he walked away with the cameras whirring. This is Elon Musk. A sociopath, if ever there was one. To deduce, from this visit, that he is a friend of the Jews is desperately naive. More from her here: https://juliegraysays.substack.com/p/elon-musk https://juliegraysays.substack.com/p/elon-musk
- toddmatthews 2y ago
  https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/the-truth-about-musk-from-his-biographer https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/the-truth-about-musk-fro...

kevingadd 2y ago

Anything is speculation if you try hard enough to make it speculation.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Watch the salute videos from all angles, including the contorting he does of his face into a look very much not of love. Then watch the videos from the past where he reaches out from his heart and lack of facial contortions. There is zero similarity between his past 'from my heart' and his salutes. Then put his salute videos next to nazi salutes and try to find the difference. Look at the un-natural elbow position, unnatural finger placement, straight rigid wrist, the angels, un-natural timing of the movement.

olalonde 2y ago
The prime minister of Israel and the Anti-Defamation League disagree that it was a Nazi salute.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Clayton Bigsby also approves!
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  Actual Nazi's however were celebrating it. I think they are pretty good at recognizing their own, no? Again, I suggest people use their actual eyes. Look at how he did that motion in the past, how he did his salute, and watch the full motion side by side with actual both those and a 'confirmed, 100% certified' nazi salute. Look at it from the multiple angles.
  - olalonde 2y ago
    > Actual Nazi's however were celebrating it. I think they are pretty good at recognizing their own, no? They're not a very bright bunch actually.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      Your response that people 'not believe their lying eyes' was better than this attempt at humor.