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> Have you noticed how in the past decade or two we have totally abandoned the pursuit of happiness through self-reliance and independence? No.

by wilg 2y ago

SeptiumMMX 2y ago
Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, at what age do you plan to retire, what funds to you plan to use to cover the living expenses, and what skill set are you trying to pass to your kids so they will be able to afford moving out and staring their own families? I'm asking because things things are getting harder every year and the media has a permanent blind eye on them.
- astrange 2y ago
  "Things" are not getting harder every year; if you only see negative things in the world, this is a sign you have depression more than anything.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 2y ago
    Hmm. If things are not getting harder then either they stay the same or get better. I would find it hard to argue for either of those positions, but I would welcome you to try to defend that "things are not getting harder". In just about every possible metric outside of maybe "few really, really wealthy individuals make more money" things are not getting better or are stable. Are you maybe suggesting that what is good for an individual is not good for society?
    - lucb1e 2y ago
      > Are you maybe suggesting that what is good for an individual is not good for society? I don't read any such suggestion into the person's post; to me, it seems to mean what it says. As to whether individual needs and societal needs always align, I would guess you probably know the answer is "no" -- but also far from "never"
    - astrange 2y ago
      Income inequality in the US hasn't increased since 2014 and is sharply decreased since 2019. Lower income people are making more money than ever. There was a period of no income growth for upper-middle class people, however, which probably made them unhappy. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31010/w31010.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31010/w310... What did happen in the last two years was there was a "vibecession" where everyone decided to pretend the economy was bad even though everything about it was objectively good. You can see this in surveys, because everyone answered them with "I'm personally doing well, but I know everyone else is doing badly because I heard it on the news". First described here: https://kyla.substack.com/p/the-vibecession-the-self-fulfilling https://kyla.substack.com/p/the-vibecession-the-self-fulfill... Note, this was written at the tail end of the inflation period and none of the predictions of bad things quoted in the article actually happened. Of course, that's the story up to the end of 2024. All kinds of bad things can happen now - I can't tell you about the future, but the present is easier.
      - coding123 2y ago
        [dead]
      - iugtmkbdfil834 2y ago
        Ok. First, the 1st paper is interesting, but I can't digest it now. Added to the list for later. That said, temporarily ignoring the paper, income in absolute terms may have well increased, but from 2014 to 2024 we also had ~33% official CPI inflation ( edit: which is well above FED's goal ), which effectively eroded any gains average person may have managed to eke out. In other words, it is not a vibe whem that 100k+ is getting you ~33% less. It is simply what things are. << Of course, that's the story up to the end of 2024. All kinds of bad things can happen now - I can't tell you about the future, but the present is easier. I am not hopeful, but I am willing to accept it as a possible outcome.
        astrange 2y ago
        Don't insult my intelligence like that. I would never quote nominal income to you. My post was inflation adjusted.
_heimdall 2y ago
Really? Maybe its my bias showing through, but my memory of the last couple decades is largely an exercise in most people looking to outside authorities (governments, corporations, titled experts, etc) to fix problems rather than dealing with it individually.
- wilg 2y ago
  Yes, it's your bias.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Well in an attempt to at least show where the bias, if that's what it is, comes from: - Affordable Care Act - the entire Covid response - GDPR - the "TikTok Ban" act To name a few, those are all examples of us having granted larger powers to the government in hopes that they will fix problems for us that we won't fix ourselves.
    - jakelazaroff 2y ago
      Let’s take the ACA. That was designed to fix the problem “healthcare in the US is insanely expensive and insurance companies can deny coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.” How could you fix that problem individually?
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        My argument there wasn't actually that all of those could have done bottom up, only that they are examples of us granting the government more power and asking for a collectivist solution. That isn't always a bad thing, but it does point to the trend that I recognize (potentially due to my bias as pointed out above).
        jakelazaroff 2y ago
        Okay, but… if there’s no feasible individual solution, it really undercuts your argument here.

> Have you noticed how in the past decade or two we have totally abandoned the pursuit of happiness through self-reliance and independence? No.

by wilg 2y ago

> Have you noticed how in the past decade or two we have totally abandoned the pursuit of happiness through self-reliance and independence? No.

SeptiumMMX 2y ago

Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, at what age do you plan to retire, what funds to you plan to use to cover the living expenses, and what skill set are you trying to pass to your kids so they will be able to afford moving out and staring their own families? I'm asking because things things are getting harder every year and the media has a permanent blind eye on them.

astrange 2y ago
"Things" are not getting harder every year; if you only see negative things in the world, this is a sign you have depression more than anything.
- iugtmkbdfil834 2y ago
  Hmm. If things are not getting harder then either they stay the same or get better. I would find it hard to argue for either of those positions, but I would welcome you to try to defend that "things are not getting harder". In just about every possible metric outside of maybe "few really, really wealthy individuals make more money" things are not getting better or are stable. Are you maybe suggesting that what is good for an individual is not good for society?
  - lucb1e 2y ago
    > Are you maybe suggesting that what is good for an individual is not good for society? I don't read any such suggestion into the person's post; to me, it seems to mean what it says. As to whether individual needs and societal needs always align, I would guess you probably know the answer is "no" -- but also far from "never"
  - astrange 2y ago
    Income inequality in the US hasn't increased since 2014 and is sharply decreased since 2019. Lower income people are making more money than ever. There was a period of no income growth for upper-middle class people, however, which probably made them unhappy. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31010/w31010.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31010/w310... What did happen in the last two years was there was a "vibecession" where everyone decided to pretend the economy was bad even though everything about it was objectively good. You can see this in surveys, because everyone answered them with "I'm personally doing well, but I know everyone else is doing badly because I heard it on the news". First described here: https://kyla.substack.com/p/the-vibecession-the-self-fulfilling https://kyla.substack.com/p/the-vibecession-the-self-fulfill... Note, this was written at the tail end of the inflation period and none of the predictions of bad things quoted in the article actually happened. Of course, that's the story up to the end of 2024. All kinds of bad things can happen now - I can't tell you about the future, but the present is easier.
    - coding123 2y ago
      [dead]
    - iugtmkbdfil834 2y ago
      Ok. First, the 1st paper is interesting, but I can't digest it now. Added to the list for later. That said, temporarily ignoring the paper, income in absolute terms may have well increased, but from 2014 to 2024 we also had ~33% official CPI inflation ( edit: which is well above FED's goal ), which effectively eroded any gains average person may have managed to eke out. In other words, it is not a vibe whem that 100k+ is getting you ~33% less. It is simply what things are. << Of course, that's the story up to the end of 2024. All kinds of bad things can happen now - I can't tell you about the future, but the present is easier. I am not hopeful, but I am willing to accept it as a possible outcome.
      - astrange 2y ago
        Don't insult my intelligence like that. I would never quote nominal income to you. My post was inflation adjusted.

_heimdall 2y ago

Really? Maybe its my bias showing through, but my memory of the last couple decades is largely an exercise in most people looking to outside authorities (governments, corporations, titled experts, etc) to fix problems rather than dealing with it individually.

wilg 2y ago
Yes, it's your bias.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Well in an attempt to at least show where the bias, if that's what it is, comes from: - Affordable Care Act - the entire Covid response - GDPR - the "TikTok Ban" act To name a few, those are all examples of us having granted larger powers to the government in hopes that they will fix problems for us that we won't fix ourselves.
  - jakelazaroff 2y ago
    Let’s take the ACA. That was designed to fix the problem “healthcare in the US is insanely expensive and insurance companies can deny coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.” How could you fix that problem individually?
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      My argument there wasn't actually that all of those could have done bottom up, only that they are examples of us granting the government more power and asking for a collectivist solution. That isn't always a bad thing, but it does point to the trend that I recognize (potentially due to my bias as pointed out above).
      - jakelazaroff 2y ago
        Okay, but… if there’s no feasible individual solution, it really undercuts your argument here.