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I feel like Swift is being held hostage by Apple. I can't get get the next version of Swift, because it's being distributed with a higher version of Xcode that

I feel like Swift is being held hostage by Apple. I can't get get the next version of Swift, because it's being distributed with a higher version of Xcode that only runs on an OS version I don't want to install (yet), and even if I did, I'd first have to buy a new Mac for that. That trick seems to work with enough developers to make Apple ever more rich and powerful and even more arrogant (if that's possible at all), but it doesn't work with me. As much as I appreciate Swift, I will only ever use it on my terms, not on Apple's.

diggan 2y ago
> As much as I appreciate Swift, I will only ever use it on my terms, not on Apple's. Apple's ethos for a long time have been "On our terms only", for almost everything they've built. Why would they treat Swift any differently?
declan_roberts 2y ago
While i am sympathetic to you, you have to see that you represent a vanishing small use case for them.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  Isn't that their complaint though? They don't want to participate in a language where they can only ever be a second class citizen.
rescripting 2y ago
This isn’t true, you can get the next version of Swift by downloading a pkg installer from https://www.swift.org/install/macos/ https://www.swift.org/install/macos/ You can get it bundled with Xcode as well if you’d like, but it’s not necessary.
- tempodox 2y ago
  But you cannot run the product on an iDevice and a build for Mac Catalyst isn't even possible. “Bundled with Xcode” is very much necessary.
  - madeofpalk 2y ago
    Swift isn't the one being held hostage, it's iOS development.
threeseed 2y ago
> I'd first have to buy a new Mac for that Which means you are running Mojave and your Mac is at least 6 years old. I wouldn't expect anyone to support developers who are running a two generation old OS.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I can run the latest version of my OS of choice on hardware twice that old. This is only a problem that Apple has created to help them sell hardware. These days, a 6-year-old laptop is still a perfectly capable machine.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    And it is still a perfectly capable machine. But you can't expect Apple to support it as a development platform. Especially when they want you to use the latest SDKs which only work on newer machines.
    - tempodox 2y ago
      You're moving the goal posts. I'm not interested in SDKs that cannot work on a given OS or CPU, I just want to update the compiler to make use of progress in the language, without being forced by Apple to buy new hardware for that, or install a different OS. You pretending these things cannot be separated looks deeply disingenuous.
deleted 2y ago
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diggan 2y ago

> As much as I appreciate Swift, I will only ever use it on my terms, not on Apple's. Apple's ethos for a long time have been "On our terms only", for almost everything they've built. Why would they treat Swift any differently?

declan_roberts 2y ago

While i am sympathetic to you, you have to see that you represent a vanishing small use case for them.

AlotOfReading 2y ago
Isn't that their complaint though? They don't want to participate in a language where they can only ever be a second class citizen.

rescripting 2y ago

This isn’t true, you can get the next version of Swift by downloading a pkg installer from https://www.swift.org/install/macos/ https://www.swift.org/install/macos/ You can get it bundled with Xcode as well if you’d like, but it’s not necessary.

tempodox 2y ago
But you cannot run the product on an iDevice and a build for Mac Catalyst isn't even possible. “Bundled with Xcode” is very much necessary.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  Swift isn't the one being held hostage, it's iOS development.

threeseed 2y ago

> I'd first have to buy a new Mac for that Which means you are running Mojave and your Mac is at least 6 years old. I wouldn't expect anyone to support developers who are running a two generation old OS.

kelnos 2y ago
I can run the latest version of my OS of choice on hardware twice that old. This is only a problem that Apple has created to help them sell hardware. These days, a 6-year-old laptop is still a perfectly capable machine.
- threeseed 2y ago
  And it is still a perfectly capable machine. But you can't expect Apple to support it as a development platform. Especially when they want you to use the latest SDKs which only work on newer machines.
  - tempodox 2y ago
    You're moving the goal posts. I'm not interested in SDKs that cannot work on a given OS or CPU, I just want to update the compiler to make use of progress in the language, without being forced by Apple to buy new hardware for that, or install a different OS. You pretending these things cannot be separated looks deeply disingenuous.

deleted 2y ago

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