4 ms·

The toxic push for putting the start menu in the middle -- I don't need another reason. Allowing it to be moved later wont change a thing. The whole thing is j

The toxic push for putting the start menu in the middle -- I don't need another reason. Allowing it to be moved later wont change a thing. The whole thing is just cursed. My corparate IT guy will have to push the "upgrade" button for me.

dangus 2y ago
Moving the start menu back to the left side is a built-in setting. This is exactly what I was talking about. You hyper-focused on one easily revertable UI change and ignored the rest of the features, benefits, fixes, and improvements of an OS that has now been getting updates and enhancements for 4 years now while Windows 10 has been sitting there receiving basic security updates and nothing else. When your IT guy finally forces you to upgrade, you'll spend a week getting used to the places where your cheese got moved and figure out "oh shit this thing actually has a bunch of neat stuff in it that I didn't have before."
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Did you honestly think the main issue is the location of the start menu, and not the toxicity of the incessant pushing, or are you just pretending to as a cheap discussion gambit? (If anything, your reference to the treacly treatise on the moving of cheeses makes me lean towards the latter.)
  - dangus 2y ago
    My point is that Microsoft has always been this way and that the people who are clinging to Windows 10 for these emotional reasons rather than evaluating 11 on its merits are basically drawing a false line in the sand. If you don’t like the toxicity of Microsoft in windows 11, why were you okay with it with Windows 10? My view is the same people complaining about Windows 11 complained about Windows 10 and basically every prior version. Like if you’re mad that Windows 11 is spyware and nags you to buy OneDrive and changed your UI, well, that’s the same thing that Windows 10 did. So why is anyone so insistent on sticking with Windows 10 when Windows 11 at this point has 4 years of feature updates have a laundry list of improvements and modernizations? And yes, people who won’t upgrade because “the UI changed/got worse” grind my gears. That just shows that you refuse to learn and adapt. I am much more understanding of the people who switched to Linux or won’t upgrade to 11 over hardware compatibility. But everyone else is just keeping themselves a version behind over digital superstition.
    - CRConrad 2y ago
      > If you don’t like the toxicity of Microsoft in windows 11, why were you okay with it with Windows 10? Who says I was? It just came with the computers I bought / was given by my employer(s) in recent years. But they'd said that was it; we were supposed to be done with all that once and for all. So why shouldn't I be annoyed at having them spew their toxicity at us all over again? > And yes, people who won’t upgrade because “the UI changed/got worse” grind my gears. That just shows that you refuse to learn and adapt. Why should we have to? What's the use of "learn and adapt" when there's scarce-to-none actual improvement in return?
      - dangus 2y ago
        If you were given computers by your employer for work then the OS isn’t your problem. You are paid to use and adapt to the OS. If you don’t want to do that job you should go flip burgers. If you bought computers from your employer and you want to change the OS go ahead and do so. I’m not criticizing the person who does that. But whining about the OS on that machine makes you look bad because you’re the one who chose to buy the computer. If you don’t like the OS that’s on it go why did you buy the computer? Nobody twisted your arm to buy your employer’s computer. Again, Windows users complaining about their computer having Windows and then continuing to use Windows is tired and annoying. They complained about ever major version and once they were finally forced by EOL to use the newest version the newest version became their favorite. All the “Windows 10 will leave my cold dead hands” people said the same thing about Windows 7 and Windows XP. And again, my argument was that people who don’t want to learn and adapt just claim there’s scarce to no improvement because they don’t have any willingness to discover those improvements because the initial adaptation is a dealbreaker for them. They’ll go to their graves saying that Windows XP was the best Windows OS ever while hand waving over all of its flaws and limitations. So, have fun having worse battery life because your laptop doesn’t support dynamic display refresh rate, having a worse content experience because your OS doesn’t support HDR properly even though your monitor does, having less secure slower WiFi because your OS doesn’t support WiFi 7 and WPA3, having a cluttered work environment because file explorer doesn’t support tabs, needing to install third party programs to unarchive tar and 7zip formats, and the list of feature additions you’re missing out on goes on and on. I guess those improvements are scarce to none because by not using them they must not exist. A tree in the woods doesn’t fall down if you aren’t there, right?
- rightbyte 2y ago
  Is it the task bar you can't move? I am trying to make the point that emotions are enough to discredit it. Ads and spyware, general user hostility. It is superficial to bring that up. Windows does not want me and I don't want Windows.
  - dangus 2y ago
    The task bar can’t be moved anymore. I don’t agree with it either but that wasn’t the issue in your comment, which was start menu alignment, which can be adjusted. My point is that most of the emotions discrediting it are the same emotions that discredited 10 and other versions. People just don’t want to upgrade because they don’t want to upgrade. If you are specifically using Windows 10 you are still using Windows with all that same user hostility, spyware/adware and all. All those complaints you have about windows 11 are the same complaints I heard from the windows 7 die hards who refused to upgrade to 10 until 7 was pried away from them. And then I heard them from all the people who refused to leave XP way past its expiration date. It all you want is for Windows 11 to look like Windows 10 there are free utilities for that [1], just like when I installed classic start menu with Windows 8.1. If you’re already on the Linux boat or thinking that’s your next move when security updates force you off of Windows 10, that is obviously a much different choice with much more logical thinking behind it. But the people who are clinging to Windows 10 are doing so for really dumb and often misinformed or already-addressed reasons (e.g. issues with early releases that have been addressed by Microsoft in subsequent updates). And sure, there are people who have who have legitimate hardware incompatibility. Thats a reasonable reason to avoid the upgrade. [1] https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher

dangus 2y ago

Moving the start menu back to the left side is a built-in setting. This is exactly what I was talking about. You hyper-focused on one easily revertable UI change and ignored the rest of the features, benefits, fixes, and improvements of an OS that has now been getting updates and enhancements for 4 years now while Windows 10 has been sitting there receiving basic security updates and nothing else. When your IT guy finally forces you to upgrade, you'll spend a week getting used to the places where your cheese got moved and figure out "oh shit this thing actually has a bunch of neat stuff in it that I didn't have before."

CRConrad 2y ago
Did you honestly think the main issue is the location of the start menu, and not the toxicity of the incessant pushing, or are you just pretending to as a cheap discussion gambit? (If anything, your reference to the treacly treatise on the moving of cheeses makes me lean towards the latter.)
- dangus 2y ago
  My point is that Microsoft has always been this way and that the people who are clinging to Windows 10 for these emotional reasons rather than evaluating 11 on its merits are basically drawing a false line in the sand. If you don’t like the toxicity of Microsoft in windows 11, why were you okay with it with Windows 10? My view is the same people complaining about Windows 11 complained about Windows 10 and basically every prior version. Like if you’re mad that Windows 11 is spyware and nags you to buy OneDrive and changed your UI, well, that’s the same thing that Windows 10 did. So why is anyone so insistent on sticking with Windows 10 when Windows 11 at this point has 4 years of feature updates have a laundry list of improvements and modernizations? And yes, people who won’t upgrade because “the UI changed/got worse” grind my gears. That just shows that you refuse to learn and adapt. I am much more understanding of the people who switched to Linux or won’t upgrade to 11 over hardware compatibility. But everyone else is just keeping themselves a version behind over digital superstition.
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    > If you don’t like the toxicity of Microsoft in windows 11, why were you okay with it with Windows 10? Who says I was? It just came with the computers I bought / was given by my employer(s) in recent years. But they'd said that was it; we were supposed to be done with all that once and for all. So why shouldn't I be annoyed at having them spew their toxicity at us all over again? > And yes, people who won’t upgrade because “the UI changed/got worse” grind my gears. That just shows that you refuse to learn and adapt. Why should we have to? What's the use of "learn and adapt" when there's scarce-to-none actual improvement in return?
    - dangus 2y ago
      If you were given computers by your employer for work then the OS isn’t your problem. You are paid to use and adapt to the OS. If you don’t want to do that job you should go flip burgers. If you bought computers from your employer and you want to change the OS go ahead and do so. I’m not criticizing the person who does that. But whining about the OS on that machine makes you look bad because you’re the one who chose to buy the computer. If you don’t like the OS that’s on it go why did you buy the computer? Nobody twisted your arm to buy your employer’s computer. Again, Windows users complaining about their computer having Windows and then continuing to use Windows is tired and annoying. They complained about ever major version and once they were finally forced by EOL to use the newest version the newest version became their favorite. All the “Windows 10 will leave my cold dead hands” people said the same thing about Windows 7 and Windows XP. And again, my argument was that people who don’t want to learn and adapt just claim there’s scarce to no improvement because they don’t have any willingness to discover those improvements because the initial adaptation is a dealbreaker for them. They’ll go to their graves saying that Windows XP was the best Windows OS ever while hand waving over all of its flaws and limitations. So, have fun having worse battery life because your laptop doesn’t support dynamic display refresh rate, having a worse content experience because your OS doesn’t support HDR properly even though your monitor does, having less secure slower WiFi because your OS doesn’t support WiFi 7 and WPA3, having a cluttered work environment because file explorer doesn’t support tabs, needing to install third party programs to unarchive tar and 7zip formats, and the list of feature additions you’re missing out on goes on and on. I guess those improvements are scarce to none because by not using them they must not exist. A tree in the woods doesn’t fall down if you aren’t there, right?
rightbyte 2y ago
Is it the task bar you can't move? I am trying to make the point that emotions are enough to discredit it. Ads and spyware, general user hostility. It is superficial to bring that up. Windows does not want me and I don't want Windows.
- dangus 2y ago
  The task bar can’t be moved anymore. I don’t agree with it either but that wasn’t the issue in your comment, which was start menu alignment, which can be adjusted. My point is that most of the emotions discrediting it are the same emotions that discredited 10 and other versions. People just don’t want to upgrade because they don’t want to upgrade. If you are specifically using Windows 10 you are still using Windows with all that same user hostility, spyware/adware and all. All those complaints you have about windows 11 are the same complaints I heard from the windows 7 die hards who refused to upgrade to 10 until 7 was pried away from them. And then I heard them from all the people who refused to leave XP way past its expiration date. It all you want is for Windows 11 to look like Windows 10 there are free utilities for that [1], just like when I installed classic start menu with Windows 8.1. If you’re already on the Linux boat or thinking that’s your next move when security updates force you off of Windows 10, that is obviously a much different choice with much more logical thinking behind it. But the people who are clinging to Windows 10 are doing so for really dumb and often misinformed or already-addressed reasons (e.g. issues with early releases that have been addressed by Microsoft in subsequent updates). And sure, there are people who have who have legitimate hardware incompatibility. Thats a reasonable reason to avoid the upgrade. [1] https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher