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proxy situation whereby a firm in another, friendlier company to the US directly holds the basket You make it sound like shares in companies are anonym

proxy situation whereby a firm in another, friendlier company to the US directly holds the basket You make it sound like shares in companies are anonymous objects like pieces of gold. But that is not the case. The data about who "owns" shares in US companies is stored digitally in the US. Similar situation with the Dollar. That's why Russia can't just sell their Dollars to other countries. What crimes has Norway committed I'm not saying there are crimes committed. But it looks like Europe is losing the ability to produce stuff of value. Because it is missing out on technology. And the US might not want to send stuff to Europe when Europe has nothing to send back.

hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
The data about who "owns" shares in US companies is stored digitally in the US. The holding company in the other country holds the shares. They are in fact the ones who own the stock. I see no contradiction here. Similar situation with the Dollar. That's why Russia can't just sell their Dollars to other countries. At what price? I assume this is referring to the Moscow exchange deciding to shut down its own dollar trading, which is (1) self imposed and (2) very different from what you just said, because Russian holders can certainly still trade US dollars directly with each other. I'm nearly positive a buyer exists who would be willing to trade at, say, 1 US dollar per 0.1 Chinese yuan, even if it meant they had to drive a truck into and out of Anatolia to move the physical bills. China and Russia are trade partners, but s/China/India, Kazakhstan, wherever you want - the point remains the same. Indeed, if Russian citizens are not rushing to sell their dollars for whatever they can get them for, it must be because they foresee some future where they might have actual value, which seems at odds with the claim that Russia is permanently and magically banned from ever using their US dollars again. [T]he US might not want to send stuff to Europe when Europe has nothing to send back. Yes, that's how free trade works. Congratulations. Yes, if you don't have anything your partner wants the trade won't taken, and you'll have to make do on your own. This seems extremely contrived. First, you're imagining US-Europe trade slows to a trickle. Second, you're imagining that not one single Euro country decides to reverse course on their bad economic choices when it notices this. Third, you're imagining that Norway is still holding onto their enormous US assets in this situation instead of liquidating them as soon as they see people riding the horse and buggy to work again.
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  The holding company in the other country holds the shares. Right now Norway "holds" them. Aka there are database entries somewhere in the US, stating that Norway "holds" them. And if their shares get frozen, they can't "move" them to the company in the other country. The US just won't update those database entries.

hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago

The data about who "owns" shares in US companies is stored digitally in the US. The holding company in the other country holds the shares. They are in fact the ones who own the stock. I see no contradiction here. Similar situation with the Dollar. That's why Russia can't just sell their Dollars to other countries. At what price? I assume this is referring to the Moscow exchange deciding to shut down its own dollar trading, which is (1) self imposed and (2) very different from what you just said, because Russian holders can certainly still trade US dollars directly with each other. I'm nearly positive a buyer exists who would be willing to trade at, say, 1 US dollar per 0.1 Chinese yuan, even if it meant they had to drive a truck into and out of Anatolia to move the physical bills. China and Russia are trade partners, but s/China/India, Kazakhstan, wherever you want - the point remains the same. Indeed, if Russian citizens are not rushing to sell their dollars for whatever they can get them for, it must be because they foresee some future where they might have actual value, which seems at odds with the claim that Russia is permanently and magically banned from ever using their US dollars again. [T]he US might not want to send stuff to Europe when Europe has nothing to send back. Yes, that's how free trade works. Congratulations. Yes, if you don't have anything your partner wants the trade won't taken, and you'll have to make do on your own. This seems extremely contrived. First, you're imagining US-Europe trade slows to a trickle. Second, you're imagining that not one single Euro country decides to reverse course on their bad economic choices when it notices this. Third, you're imagining that Norway is still holding onto their enormous US assets in this situation instead of liquidating them as soon as they see people riding the horse and buggy to work again.

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
The holding company in the other country holds the shares. Right now Norway "holds" them. Aka there are database entries somewhere in the US, stating that Norway "holds" them. And if their shares get frozen, they can't "move" them to the company in the other country. The US just won't update those database entries.