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Sorting this list by "Value NOK" shows their biggest holdings: https://www.nbim.no/en/investments/all-investments/#/2024/investments/equities https://www.nbim.

Sorting this list by "Value NOK" shows their biggest holdings: https://www.nbim.no/en/investments/all-investments/#/2024/investments/equities https://www.nbim.no/en/investments/all-investments/#/2024/in... Apple, Microsoft, NVIDIA, Alphabet, Amazon, Meta ... Does this put Norway at the mercy of the USA? What if Norway and the USA have an argument and the USA says "You don't want us to freeze your investments in our beautiful tech stocks, do you?".

rwmj 2y ago
If the US wants to wreck their own stock market by inducing fear and uncertainty in investors everywhere (including in the US), this would be one way to go about it.
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  Didn't they introduce fear and uncertainty in their currency by freezing Russia's Dollars? Didn't they introduce fear and uncertainty in their trade relationships by using tariffs as a negotiation tool? Do you think their stock market is safe from that behavior?
  - chikere232 2y ago
    Sanctions wasn't a new thing when Russia invaded. A rational investor can consider the risk that their country will start invading neighbours in a war of conquest and price it in
thisislife2 2y ago
Norway's national security is already tied to the US by virtue of its membership with NATO. Any country in a military alliance understands that it somewhat politically limits their freedom when it comes to foreign policies, as they also have to consider the foreign policy goals of those in the military alliance (especially the more powerful partners - see https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/80821 https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/80821 ). Unless Norway is lead by some foolish political leader who forgets this basic political principle, there shouldn't be any problems with the US. Note also that Norway's sovereign fund investment in the US also create an economic dependence between the two countries. It would hurt the US industries too, if Norway suddenly decided to pull all their investment out of the US. Moreover, the US dealing with the Norwegians like they did with Russian wealth in America or Europe, would mean the end of western control over international finance. Other countries have already noted how the western countries are withholding Russian funds to try and blackmail them, and are already talking about the need for an alternate international finance system that will not be as vulnerable to western politics.
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  if Norway suddenly decided to pull all their investment out of the US How can you "pull" an investment out of a country if that country says the investment is void? an alternate international finance system Countries can certainly build that. But can they build GPUs on par with Nvidia, Google, Intel and AMD?
  - thisislife2 2y ago
    I was citing the opposite scenario - if the US can claim the investment is void Norway too has the option to unilaterally withdraw its investments from the US, anticipating such shenanigans. Both are extreme cases. As for international finance systems vs restrictions on technology - you are mixing up different forms of sanctions.
- contrarian1234 2y ago
  That doesn't really square with reality. For instance Turkey goes directly against US interests in the middle east constantly - while being part of NATO. The linked SO question is a bit ridiculous. Since when are India and the US allies? I can't think of anything the two countries have really done jointly. The US has historically supported Pakistan and India has historically had very chummy relations with the USSR/Russia (esp the military industrial side of things). India is not a signatory of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty and they don't respect US pharmaceutical IP. They're not outright enemies, but they're def not allies
  - olddustytrail 2y ago
    From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally "In 2016, the United States recognized India as a "major defense partner"... In June 2019, American lawmakers provided for enhancements to the strategic status of India, though this fell short of designating the country as an MNNA."
  - thisislife2 2y ago
    That's a different case. Turkey (Türkiye) was desperate to join NATO because of USSR. Now that Russia isn't as strong and relationships between the two have improved, and Türkiye has realised that the EU has no intention of ever making it a member, it has less reason to kowtow to US / NATO foreign policies. Once it de-prioritised its foreign policy from US / NATO, it has naturally found more space to have a more independent foreign policy.
miohtama 2y ago
Norway also holds $500M Bitcoin through Microstrategy
hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
I thought I recognized this username, you're the same guy who was asking whether Europe could build their own AI infrastructure a few days back [1]. You clearly have some kind of bone to pick with how Europe has chosen to handle things here. No, Norway is not "at the mercy" of the USA because it has chosen to voluntarily conduct business with US companies, any more than the USA is "at the mercy" of, say, China. That's a ridiculous way to frame free trade between friendly, or even not-so-friendly, nations. If - and this is a big if - Norwegian-US relations degraded to the point that asset freezing was on the table, then yes, Norway would likely choose to divest those direct holdings somehow. The most likely way they would try to do this is by looking into some kind of proxy situation whereby a firm in another, friendlier company to the US directly holds the basket, and they hold a big stake in that company. Capitalism is more clever than you are. "Okay, but what if the US freezes investments in all other countries that trade with Norway in that situation?" That leads to much worse outcomes for everyone involved, the US included. Everyone becomes poorer when they are unable to trade, that's econ 101. How far down this rabbit hole do we have to go? No trading with other countries which trade with other countries which trade with Norway? Come on. Even North Korea trades with other countries. What crimes has Norway committed in the first place to lead to this nightmare, anyway? Eating fish? Preferring iPhones to Androids? Offering a 2 year citizenship track to those rogues, the Finns? If you want to argue that Europe is doing dumb things with its money, or its investments, sure. By all means. Don't insinuate there is a looming embargo with the US because you're mad that Vanguard is outperforming MSCI, though. Focus on doing the things that make you rich - like thinking clearly, and being friendly to those who want to do business with you. Hey, it's working for Norway. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42875716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42875716
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  proxy situation whereby a firm in another, friendlier company to the US directly holds the basket You make it sound like shares in companies are anonymous objects like pieces of gold. But that is not the case. The data about who "owns" shares in US companies is stored digitally in the US. Similar situation with the Dollar. That's why Russia can't just sell their Dollars to other countries. What crimes has Norway committed I'm not saying there are crimes committed. But it looks like Europe is losing the ability to produce stuff of value. Because it is missing out on technology. And the US might not want to send stuff to Europe when Europe has nothing to send back.
4ndrewl 2y ago
The USA would never be so childish...oh, hold on

rwmj 2y ago

If the US wants to wreck their own stock market by inducing fear and uncertainty in investors everywhere (including in the US), this would be one way to go about it.

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
Didn't they introduce fear and uncertainty in their currency by freezing Russia's Dollars? Didn't they introduce fear and uncertainty in their trade relationships by using tariffs as a negotiation tool? Do you think their stock market is safe from that behavior?
- chikere232 2y ago
  Sanctions wasn't a new thing when Russia invaded. A rational investor can consider the risk that their country will start invading neighbours in a war of conquest and price it in

thisislife2 2y ago

Norway's national security is already tied to the US by virtue of its membership with NATO. Any country in a military alliance understands that it somewhat politically limits their freedom when it comes to foreign policies, as they also have to consider the foreign policy goals of those in the military alliance (especially the more powerful partners - see https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/80821 https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/80821 ). Unless Norway is lead by some foolish political leader who forgets this basic political principle, there shouldn't be any problems with the US. Note also that Norway's sovereign fund investment in the US also create an economic dependence between the two countries. It would hurt the US industries too, if Norway suddenly decided to pull all their investment out of the US. Moreover, the US dealing with the Norwegians like they did with Russian wealth in America or Europe, would mean the end of western control over international finance. Other countries have already noted how the western countries are withholding Russian funds to try and blackmail them, and are already talking about the need for an alternate international finance system that will not be as vulnerable to western politics.

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
if Norway suddenly decided to pull all their investment out of the US How can you "pull" an investment out of a country if that country says the investment is void? an alternate international finance system Countries can certainly build that. But can they build GPUs on par with Nvidia, Google, Intel and AMD?
- thisislife2 2y ago
  I was citing the opposite scenario - if the US can claim the investment is void Norway too has the option to unilaterally withdraw its investments from the US, anticipating such shenanigans. Both are extreme cases. As for international finance systems vs restrictions on technology - you are mixing up different forms of sanctions.
contrarian1234 2y ago
That doesn't really square with reality. For instance Turkey goes directly against US interests in the middle east constantly - while being part of NATO. The linked SO question is a bit ridiculous. Since when are India and the US allies? I can't think of anything the two countries have really done jointly. The US has historically supported Pakistan and India has historically had very chummy relations with the USSR/Russia (esp the military industrial side of things). India is not a signatory of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty and they don't respect US pharmaceutical IP. They're not outright enemies, but they're def not allies
- olddustytrail 2y ago
  From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally "In 2016, the United States recognized India as a "major defense partner"... In June 2019, American lawmakers provided for enhancements to the strategic status of India, though this fell short of designating the country as an MNNA."
- thisislife2 2y ago
  That's a different case. Turkey (Türkiye) was desperate to join NATO because of USSR. Now that Russia isn't as strong and relationships between the two have improved, and Türkiye has realised that the EU has no intention of ever making it a member, it has less reason to kowtow to US / NATO foreign policies. Once it de-prioritised its foreign policy from US / NATO, it has naturally found more space to have a more independent foreign policy.

miohtama 2y ago

Norway also holds $500M Bitcoin through Microstrategy

hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago

I thought I recognized this username, you're the same guy who was asking whether Europe could build their own AI infrastructure a few days back [1]. You clearly have some kind of bone to pick with how Europe has chosen to handle things here. No, Norway is not "at the mercy" of the USA because it has chosen to voluntarily conduct business with US companies, any more than the USA is "at the mercy" of, say, China. That's a ridiculous way to frame free trade between friendly, or even not-so-friendly, nations. If - and this is a big if - Norwegian-US relations degraded to the point that asset freezing was on the table, then yes, Norway would likely choose to divest those direct holdings somehow. The most likely way they would try to do this is by looking into some kind of proxy situation whereby a firm in another, friendlier company to the US directly holds the basket, and they hold a big stake in that company. Capitalism is more clever than you are. "Okay, but what if the US freezes investments in all other countries that trade with Norway in that situation?" That leads to much worse outcomes for everyone involved, the US included. Everyone becomes poorer when they are unable to trade, that's econ 101. How far down this rabbit hole do we have to go? No trading with other countries which trade with other countries which trade with Norway? Come on. Even North Korea trades with other countries. What crimes has Norway committed in the first place to lead to this nightmare, anyway? Eating fish? Preferring iPhones to Androids? Offering a 2 year citizenship track to those rogues, the Finns? If you want to argue that Europe is doing dumb things with its money, or its investments, sure. By all means. Don't insinuate there is a looming embargo with the US because you're mad that Vanguard is outperforming MSCI, though. Focus on doing the things that make you rich - like thinking clearly, and being friendly to those who want to do business with you. Hey, it's working for Norway. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42875716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42875716

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
proxy situation whereby a firm in another, friendlier company to the US directly holds the basket You make it sound like shares in companies are anonymous objects like pieces of gold. But that is not the case. The data about who "owns" shares in US companies is stored digitally in the US. Similar situation with the Dollar. That's why Russia can't just sell their Dollars to other countries. What crimes has Norway committed I'm not saying there are crimes committed. But it looks like Europe is losing the ability to produce stuff of value. Because it is missing out on technology. And the US might not want to send stuff to Europe when Europe has nothing to send back.

4ndrewl 2y ago

The USA would never be so childish...oh, hold on