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So are you saying is the FAA didn't have enough controllers to keep the skies safe, ultimately leading to this week's collision? That sounds like a very strong

So are you saying is the FAA didn't have enough controllers to keep the skies safe, ultimately leading to this week's collision? That sounds like a very strong reason to fire whoever is the head of that agency.

ceejayoz 2y ago
The likely culprit for the understaffing is Congress. The pandemic also messed with training new ones for a while.
- listenallyall 2y ago
  How about the guy who was in the White House for the last 4 years? The guy who passed a so-called infrastructure bill? No responsibility for ensuring air safety in there?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    The guy they ramped up hiring under post-pandemic? https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-hits-air-traffic-controller-hiring-goal https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-hits-air-traffic-controller... > Today the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced that it exceeded its goal of hiring 1,800 air traffic controllers in 2024, with a final total of 1,811 for Fiscal Year 2024. As the largest number of hires in nearly a decade, this marks important progress in the FAA’s work to reverse the decades-long air traffic controller staffing level decline. Training controllers takes 2-4 years. Are we just gonna go from one debunkable claim to another all evening? If we’re doling out responsibility, hoping 10% of them resign probably won’t help. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-offers-incentives-federal-employees-resign-warns-downsizing-2025-01-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-offers-incentiv...
    - listenallyall 2y ago
      > If we’re doling out responsibility No, we're not. A plane went down, it's an absolutely tragic event, doesnt matter what you believe politically. I specifically avoided pointing fingers by stating this event wasn't a political issue. Does it expose the fact that our air traffic control system needs more attention and funding? Yes - and hopefully that will become a priority of the current leadership. But did this event occur because one FAA head was recently fired, or because a new president just took office? No. It's actually quite offensive that people feel it is necessary to blame these deaths on a political enemy just to make some point.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        Again, you said: > These plane crashes are totally unrelated to politics or staffing. Which the FAA preliminary report says is untrue. The resignations thing will only make the understaffing worse. Subsequently, you pointed fingers at the outgoing FAA head and the outgoing President. There are few scenarios where throwing a 2M person organization into chaos doesn't have some impact on the employees. It is too early to assign conclusive blame; it is also too early to be conclusively absolving anyone.
        DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        In this case you are trying to make a connection where it doesn’t exist. This isn’t a courthouse, and we can reasonably assume that there weren’t any changes to ATC protocol in the minuscule amount of time between the new administration assuming their positions and this incident. Put another way, it seems like you are assuming that drawing a connection between politics and reality is an obvious first step, when it’s not, at least in this case.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- kccoder 2y ago
  And congress added ten new slots to DCA in last year's FAA re-authorization act. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/3935/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/3935... SEC. 502. Introduced by Rep. Graves, Sam [R-MO-6], passed with veto-proof bipartisan support. Dollars to donuts congresscritters wanted the ability to fly to/fro DCA vs Dulles to save themselves time.
PeterStuer 2y ago
Alternatively you could say this is furter proof the agency needs a thorough shakeup as things cleary went down the gutter. Maybe collaborating on a solution to get it out of this mess is better than playing politics no matter what?

ceejayoz 2y ago

The likely culprit for the understaffing is Congress. The pandemic also messed with training new ones for a while.

listenallyall 2y ago
How about the guy who was in the White House for the last 4 years? The guy who passed a so-called infrastructure bill? No responsibility for ensuring air safety in there?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  The guy they ramped up hiring under post-pandemic? https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-hits-air-traffic-controller-hiring-goal https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-hits-air-traffic-controller... > Today the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced that it exceeded its goal of hiring 1,800 air traffic controllers in 2024, with a final total of 1,811 for Fiscal Year 2024. As the largest number of hires in nearly a decade, this marks important progress in the FAA’s work to reverse the decades-long air traffic controller staffing level decline. Training controllers takes 2-4 years. Are we just gonna go from one debunkable claim to another all evening? If we’re doling out responsibility, hoping 10% of them resign probably won’t help. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-offers-incentives-federal-employees-resign-warns-downsizing-2025-01-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-offers-incentiv...
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    > If we’re doling out responsibility No, we're not. A plane went down, it's an absolutely tragic event, doesnt matter what you believe politically. I specifically avoided pointing fingers by stating this event wasn't a political issue. Does it expose the fact that our air traffic control system needs more attention and funding? Yes - and hopefully that will become a priority of the current leadership. But did this event occur because one FAA head was recently fired, or because a new president just took office? No. It's actually quite offensive that people feel it is necessary to blame these deaths on a political enemy just to make some point.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      Again, you said: > These plane crashes are totally unrelated to politics or staffing. Which the FAA preliminary report says is untrue. The resignations thing will only make the understaffing worse. Subsequently, you pointed fingers at the outgoing FAA head and the outgoing President. There are few scenarios where throwing a 2M person organization into chaos doesn't have some impact on the employees. It is too early to assign conclusive blame; it is also too early to be conclusively absolving anyone.
      - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        In this case you are trying to make a connection where it doesn’t exist. This isn’t a courthouse, and we can reasonably assume that there weren’t any changes to ATC protocol in the minuscule amount of time between the new administration assuming their positions and this incident. Put another way, it seems like you are assuming that drawing a connection between politics and reality is an obvious first step, when it’s not, at least in this case.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
kccoder 2y ago
And congress added ten new slots to DCA in last year's FAA re-authorization act. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/3935/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/3935... SEC. 502. Introduced by Rep. Graves, Sam [R-MO-6], passed with veto-proof bipartisan support. Dollars to donuts congresscritters wanted the ability to fly to/fro DCA vs Dulles to save themselves time.

PeterStuer 2y ago

Alternatively you could say this is furter proof the agency needs a thorough shakeup as things cleary went down the gutter. Maybe collaborating on a solution to get it out of this mess is better than playing politics no matter what?