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> Sutely, when there is a head of the FAA, that person occasionally takes a vacation or other time off. What does that have to do with anything? My boss takes

> Sutely, when there is a head of the FAA, that person occasionally takes a vacation or other time off. What does that have to do with anything? My boss takes vacations too, but if my team didn’t have a manager we would surely be worse off. > These plane crashes are totally unrelated to politics or staffing. Please provide a citation for this claim.

tastyfreeze 2y ago
If the CEO of a corporation is absent does all the mid and bottom level stuff just stop working? FAA may have been headless but the head never really had anything to do with the people getting stuff done.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  If everyone in the company gets a “consider resigning” email, though? Probably some mayhem. https://www.opm.gov/fork https://www.opm.gov/fork > Below is the email that was sent to federal employees on January 28, 2025 presenting a deferred resignation offer. If you did not respond to that email and wish to accept the deferred resignation offer, you may do so by following these steps. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-administration-offering-buyouts-to-government-workers-unwilling-to-return-to-office/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-administration-offeri... > The White House expects up to 10% of federal employees to quit in September in a program meant to end work-from-home practices, senior administration officials told CBS News.
  - tastyfreeze 2y ago
    Yes, I understand that. ATC was woefully understaffed and overworked long before Trump was in office. It would be really hard to definitively tie Trump actions to a particular incident.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      Yes, that’s tough, like tracking deaths back to coal plants. We know it happens, we just can’t really say which specific ones, so it’s “cost of doing business” instead of murder. At the very least, extending resignation offers to 2M federal employees, including at the FAA, seems likely to exacerbate the problem going forwards.
      - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        You are trying to rhetorically connect these issues when they are unrelated. You can be appalled by the state of US ATC and appalled by the new administration without looking for a non existent reason to connect the two.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        “We have a huge staffing problem. We are hoping 5-10% of our staff quit, it will save billions!” They seem a tiny bit connected.
- angoragoats 2y ago
  > If the CEO of a corporation is absent does all the mid and bottom level stuff just stop working? If they leave abruptly without planning for their absence? Yes, quite possibly.
listenallyall 2y ago
I'd agree, if there was no head of the agency for many months, confusion and lack of direction would drift down and be disruptive. But 8 days after he left? That's equivalent to a vacation, and, as you noted, people manage just fine. I'll revise my earlier statement. It has nothing to do with the staffing of the agency's head. Yes, if there were not enough traffic controllers, that's indeed a staffing problem. But if the former head of the agency let that go on, putting air safety at risk, then he deserved to be fired.
- hattmall 2y ago
  The problem with ATC is that they changed from a skills based assessment to a biographical one. This is no joke. They had an explicit goal of increasing ATC diversity so they passed over hundreds of people who took the previously traditional route and graduated from FAA Air Traffic University Programs. Those candidates still had to pass the training but they have had a much higher attrition rate. So despite increased hiring ATC continues to be understaffed. https://viewfromthewing.com/diversity-in-the-skies-faas-controversial-shift-in-air-traffic-controller-hiring/ https://viewfromthewing.com/diversity-in-the-skies-faas-cont...
  - somename9 2y ago
    And that policy directly led to the deaths earlier this week. The ATC was clearly not a White male from the audio.
- angoragoats 2y ago
  > I'll revise my earlier statement. It has nothing to do with the staffing of the agency's head. Please provide a citation for this claim.
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    Me. I'm the citation. It is not the FAA chief's fault - nor is it because there was no FAA chief for 8 days - that a rogue military helicopter was flying above its well-defined airspace ceiling. https://youtu.be/uFc6JFb2MqY https://youtu.be/uFc6JFb2MqY

tastyfreeze 2y ago

If the CEO of a corporation is absent does all the mid and bottom level stuff just stop working? FAA may have been headless but the head never really had anything to do with the people getting stuff done.

ceejayoz 2y ago
If everyone in the company gets a “consider resigning” email, though? Probably some mayhem. https://www.opm.gov/fork https://www.opm.gov/fork > Below is the email that was sent to federal employees on January 28, 2025 presenting a deferred resignation offer. If you did not respond to that email and wish to accept the deferred resignation offer, you may do so by following these steps. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-administration-offering-buyouts-to-government-workers-unwilling-to-return-to-office/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-administration-offeri... > The White House expects up to 10% of federal employees to quit in September in a program meant to end work-from-home practices, senior administration officials told CBS News.
- tastyfreeze 2y ago
  Yes, I understand that. ATC was woefully understaffed and overworked long before Trump was in office. It would be really hard to definitively tie Trump actions to a particular incident.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Yes, that’s tough, like tracking deaths back to coal plants. We know it happens, we just can’t really say which specific ones, so it’s “cost of doing business” instead of murder. At the very least, extending resignation offers to 2M federal employees, including at the FAA, seems likely to exacerbate the problem going forwards.
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      You are trying to rhetorically connect these issues when they are unrelated. You can be appalled by the state of US ATC and appalled by the new administration without looking for a non existent reason to connect the two.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        “We have a huge staffing problem. We are hoping 5-10% of our staff quit, it will save billions!” They seem a tiny bit connected.
angoragoats 2y ago
> If the CEO of a corporation is absent does all the mid and bottom level stuff just stop working? If they leave abruptly without planning for their absence? Yes, quite possibly.

listenallyall 2y ago

I'd agree, if there was no head of the agency for many months, confusion and lack of direction would drift down and be disruptive. But 8 days after he left? That's equivalent to a vacation, and, as you noted, people manage just fine. I'll revise my earlier statement. It has nothing to do with the staffing of the agency's head. Yes, if there were not enough traffic controllers, that's indeed a staffing problem. But if the former head of the agency let that go on, putting air safety at risk, then he deserved to be fired.

hattmall 2y ago
The problem with ATC is that they changed from a skills based assessment to a biographical one. This is no joke. They had an explicit goal of increasing ATC diversity so they passed over hundreds of people who took the previously traditional route and graduated from FAA Air Traffic University Programs. Those candidates still had to pass the training but they have had a much higher attrition rate. So despite increased hiring ATC continues to be understaffed. https://viewfromthewing.com/diversity-in-the-skies-faas-controversial-shift-in-air-traffic-controller-hiring/ https://viewfromthewing.com/diversity-in-the-skies-faas-cont...
- somename9 2y ago
  And that policy directly led to the deaths earlier this week. The ATC was clearly not a White male from the audio.
angoragoats 2y ago
> I'll revise my earlier statement. It has nothing to do with the staffing of the agency's head. Please provide a citation for this claim.
- listenallyall 2y ago
  Me. I'm the citation. It is not the FAA chief's fault - nor is it because there was no FAA chief for 8 days - that a rogue military helicopter was flying above its well-defined airspace ceiling. https://youtu.be/uFc6JFb2MqY https://youtu.be/uFc6JFb2MqY