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In reality, what is more damaging for the environment? Replacing a 2019 Toyota Rav4 with a 2025 Tesla in North America, or..... Replacing a 1985 VW Jetta with

In reality, what is more damaging for the environment? Replacing a 2019 Toyota Rav4 with a 2025 Tesla in North America, or..... Replacing a 1985 VW Jetta with a 2019 Toyota Rav4 in India? I see YouTube videos all the time where people in third world countries are using turn of the century hit-and-miss engines to power things like water pumps or machine tools. These countries are leaking countless gallons of oil and fuel into the ground using engines and equipment that are over 100 years old when Habor Freight sells brand new engines for $150. To me, the ease with which you can sell a new car to a yuppy in the USA (who doesn't even need a new car) is baffling. Dollar for dollar, there is so much low hanging fruit. Don't get me wrong, I want to see first world countries lead the charge, but yuppys need to be more realistic in their "environmental" decision making. There is nothing frugal or environmental about having a 20" touch screen in the dash, or replacing your >5 year old car.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
The American Rav4 is probably doing a lot more miles/year than the Indian Jetta. So it'll emit a lot more CO2.
Negitivefrags 2y ago
Every car that is sold retires an old one. And the one it retires will be the least valuable. This happens becauase the person who buys a new car sells their old one to someone else, who sells their old one to someone else, and so on down the chain. The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there.
- ponty_rick 2y ago
  I don't think anyone in India is buying old American cars
  - skissane 2y ago
    Especially since India drives on the left, and hence uses right-hand drive vehicles. American vehicles are almost all left-hand drive, which are illegal to drive in India – you'd either have to pay for an expensive conversion, or manage to get a rare legal exemption (reserved for historical vehicles, foreign diplomats and official visitors, and other such special cases) [0] You can import used cars into India, but you'd generally be bringing them in from a left-hand drive market such as Japan, Australia or the UK. Plus, Indian law says import used cars have to be less than three years old, because India doesn't want to become a dumping ground for other countries old vehicles (which also undermines their local car manufacturing sector) [1] [0] https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/cars/g20-summit-can-one-import-or-use-left-hand-drive-cars-in-india-rules-you-should-know-41692269696065.html https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/cars/g20-summit-can-one... [1] https://www.acko.com/car-guide/how-to-import-foreign-cars-to-india-procedure-guidelines/#rules-to-import-a-used-car https://www.acko.com/car-guide/how-to-import-foreign-cars-to...
- 2muchcoffeeman 2y ago
  Does this actually happen? With some exceptions, there’s going to be a point where a used car is not worth the trouble to ship it somewhere. And Americans love their huge ass cars. I can’t see many cheaper markets wanting to use an American car, just for the fuel cost alone. I bet the cars get trashed for scrap or parts.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    > Does this actually happen? Absolutely it does. If you live near the Mexican border of the US, it’s extremely common to see older cars being towed headed south, presumably to Mexico. It’s not particularly expensive to drive them down to the border. > I bet the cars get trashed for scrap or parts. Only the least valuable and oldest ones that other countries don’t work. That means you’re overall moving up the modernness of the fleet. Presumably with better fuel economy, lower emissions, and fewer problems.
    - boulos 2y ago
      > presumably to Mexico. Also to Belize and other parts of Central and South America. They don't all stop in Mexico.
      - Kirby64 2y ago
        True enough. I suspect many aren’t going to South America since you can’t drive them there… but you can certainly drive all the way to Panama. If you want to head past Panama seems like it’d be easier to ship them directly from the US to their final destination.
- ribosometronome 2y ago
  >Every car that is sold retires an old one. I'm about to purchase my first car, a Tesla! Whose vehicle will be retired by my purchase?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - shagmin 2y ago
    Someone who has already bought their last car and it ends up sitting in a garage forever.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- mindslight 2y ago
  > The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there. Why are you assuming other cars are being replaced? Those other markets are not at saturation. What is being replaced could very well be a bicycle.
iforgot22 2y ago
The efficiency improvements are generally going to start in the more developed countries and eventually reach elsewhere. But this is less certain with EVs.
jefftk 2y ago
> These countries are leaking countless gallons of oil and fuel into the ground using engines and equipment that are over 100 years old Pre-1925 engines must be a minuscule fraction of all engines in active use, even in poor countries.
sho_hn 2y ago
"India is on track to become the largest EV market by 2030, with rise in investment over the next 8-10 years." https://www.ibef.org/industry/electric-vehicle https://www.ibef.org/industry/electric-vehicle

bryanlarsen 2y ago

The American Rav4 is probably doing a lot more miles/year than the Indian Jetta. So it'll emit a lot more CO2.

Negitivefrags 2y ago

Every car that is sold retires an old one. And the one it retires will be the least valuable. This happens becauase the person who buys a new car sells their old one to someone else, who sells their old one to someone else, and so on down the chain. The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there.

ponty_rick 2y ago
I don't think anyone in India is buying old American cars
- skissane 2y ago
  Especially since India drives on the left, and hence uses right-hand drive vehicles. American vehicles are almost all left-hand drive, which are illegal to drive in India – you'd either have to pay for an expensive conversion, or manage to get a rare legal exemption (reserved for historical vehicles, foreign diplomats and official visitors, and other such special cases) [0] You can import used cars into India, but you'd generally be bringing them in from a left-hand drive market such as Japan, Australia or the UK. Plus, Indian law says import used cars have to be less than three years old, because India doesn't want to become a dumping ground for other countries old vehicles (which also undermines their local car manufacturing sector) [1] [0] https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/cars/g20-summit-can-one-import-or-use-left-hand-drive-cars-in-india-rules-you-should-know-41692269696065.html https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/cars/g20-summit-can-one... [1] https://www.acko.com/car-guide/how-to-import-foreign-cars-to-india-procedure-guidelines/#rules-to-import-a-used-car https://www.acko.com/car-guide/how-to-import-foreign-cars-to...
2muchcoffeeman 2y ago
Does this actually happen? With some exceptions, there’s going to be a point where a used car is not worth the trouble to ship it somewhere. And Americans love their huge ass cars. I can’t see many cheaper markets wanting to use an American car, just for the fuel cost alone. I bet the cars get trashed for scrap or parts.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  > Does this actually happen? Absolutely it does. If you live near the Mexican border of the US, it’s extremely common to see older cars being towed headed south, presumably to Mexico. It’s not particularly expensive to drive them down to the border. > I bet the cars get trashed for scrap or parts. Only the least valuable and oldest ones that other countries don’t work. That means you’re overall moving up the modernness of the fleet. Presumably with better fuel economy, lower emissions, and fewer problems.
  - boulos 2y ago
    > presumably to Mexico. Also to Belize and other parts of Central and South America. They don't all stop in Mexico.
    - Kirby64 2y ago
      True enough. I suspect many aren’t going to South America since you can’t drive them there… but you can certainly drive all the way to Panama. If you want to head past Panama seems like it’d be easier to ship them directly from the US to their final destination.
ribosometronome 2y ago
>Every car that is sold retires an old one. I'm about to purchase my first car, a Tesla! Whose vehicle will be retired by my purchase?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- shagmin 2y ago
  Someone who has already bought their last car and it ends up sitting in a garage forever.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
mindslight 2y ago
> The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there. Why are you assuming other cars are being replaced? Those other markets are not at saturation. What is being replaced could very well be a bicycle.

iforgot22 2y ago

The efficiency improvements are generally going to start in the more developed countries and eventually reach elsewhere. But this is less certain with EVs.

jefftk 2y ago

> These countries are leaking countless gallons of oil and fuel into the ground using engines and equipment that are over 100 years old Pre-1925 engines must be a minuscule fraction of all engines in active use, even in poor countries.

sho_hn 2y ago

"India is on track to become the largest EV market by 2030, with rise in investment over the next 8-10 years." https://www.ibef.org/industry/electric-vehicle https://www.ibef.org/industry/electric-vehicle