5 ms·

>That's like saying, "you can't tell me what your name is, No, it's the opposite of that. Third-person pronouns are the ones people use to discuss third person

>That's like saying, "you can't tell me what your name is, No, it's the opposite of that. Third-person pronouns are the ones people use to discuss third persons among themselves. The person who "wants their pronouns used" isn't party to the conversation. They're attempting to put their own non-name words into other people's mouths. One might make a case that you could choose your own second-person pronouns, but at least in the English language that's egalitarian, everyone's just a "you". >or whether you'd like to be called Mr., Ms. or Mrs. I call men "mister" out of respect. My other word for people who don't merit respect is "asshole". If you don't like the first, I'll use the second one. I don't even use "sir" if I can help it... no English lords in this country. >You can dislike the practice of listing your pronouns, I can do more than that now. I think I can ignore it without getting fired. >but it's perfectly ordinary to tell people how you'd like them to refer to you. It's not ordinary. At no point in human history, in any human language I am aware of, has anyone ever gotten to choose their own third-person pronouns. It's absurd and bizarre. I'm not required to acknowledge the existence of imaginary friends to anyone over the age of 7, I'm not required to play into other people's schizophrenic hallucinations, and I don't have to try to overcome my 50 years of habit in how English is spoken.

wrl 2y ago
> No, it's the opposite of that. Third-person pronouns are the ones people use to discuss third persons among themselves. The person who "wants their pronouns used" isn't party to the conversation. That's also how names work, though. As in, "Are you coming to Billy's barbeque?" when Billy is not in the conversation. > At no point in human history, in any human language I am aware of, has anyone ever gotten to choose their own third-person pronouns. It's absurd and bizarre. What's the realistic difference between pronouns and nicknames? Like a "Richard" going by a "Rich", or "Rick"? That's their decision, right? Or someone choosing to go by their middle name rather than their first name?
locopati 2y ago
When I say I use they/them pronouns, I am telling you I am non-binary and am not a man or a woman. If you go around saying he or she, you're telling me you don't care enough to treat me respectfully. Just the same as if I said my name is X and you called me a diminutive form of X that I don't use. I'm not talking about accidental references here. I'm talking about whatever principled stand you think you're taking. So, it's not about forcing you to do anything. It's asking you to be a decent human who acknowledges another human as they are, rather than as you think they should be.
- xigoi 2y ago
  How do you expect people to talk about you in languages that don’t have non-gendered pronouns?
butter999 2y ago
> I call men "mister" out of respect. My other word for people who don't merit respect is "asshole". I believe this to be the actual root of the issue. You have decided some people aren't worthy of your respect (I presume because you feel they are your adversaries in a political struggle). Anything they ask of you from that point, you take issue with and blow out of proportion. They aren't people to you, they're "assholes." You don't have to like people to respect them. You don't have to agree with them either. > I don't have to try to overcome my 50 years of habit in how English is spoken. Language changes. Culture changes. They don't change because people are "schizophrenic," they change because they're part of an ongoing conversation. You don't have to like it. You don't have to change. But if you choose to resist it, you'll come off as out of touch and you'll upset or offend people. And consequently they may not want to work with you or spend time with you. You've every right to do that. But those are the consequences. And they always have been. You can accept those consequences or you can make room for the way the world has evolved, but those are your options; time waits for nobody. Take a step back and look at how patronizing your language is. Comparing people to children. Implying they're delusional. Insisting you've got it right and refusing to budge. Doesn't that sound like the way older people have always patronized younger people? Don't you remember being younger and people talking that way about your generation?
- anthony_d 2y ago
  > You don't have to like people to respect them. You don't have to agree with them either. This is where conversations about pronouns or gender always go off the tracks… If I don’t agree with someone’s concept of gender, you’re saying I don’t respect them. How do you respectfully disagree with and not use someone’s preferred pronouns? You can disagree, but not out loud? I think you need to double check your assumptions. This isn’t a younger generation vs older generation issue. It’s mostly US (w/ Canada) and mostly a side note in politics.
  - frob 2y ago
    It's just all about respecting what people want to be called. What harm does that cause you, Andrew?
  - 2y ago

wrl 2y ago

> No, it's the opposite of that. Third-person pronouns are the ones people use to discuss third persons among themselves. The person who "wants their pronouns used" isn't party to the conversation. That's also how names work, though. As in, "Are you coming to Billy's barbeque?" when Billy is not in the conversation. > At no point in human history, in any human language I am aware of, has anyone ever gotten to choose their own third-person pronouns. It's absurd and bizarre. What's the realistic difference between pronouns and nicknames? Like a "Richard" going by a "Rich", or "Rick"? That's their decision, right? Or someone choosing to go by their middle name rather than their first name?

locopati 2y ago

When I say I use they/them pronouns, I am telling you I am non-binary and am not a man or a woman. If you go around saying he or she, you're telling me you don't care enough to treat me respectfully. Just the same as if I said my name is X and you called me a diminutive form of X that I don't use. I'm not talking about accidental references here. I'm talking about whatever principled stand you think you're taking. So, it's not about forcing you to do anything. It's asking you to be a decent human who acknowledges another human as they are, rather than as you think they should be.

xigoi 2y ago
How do you expect people to talk about you in languages that don’t have non-gendered pronouns?

butter999 2y ago

> I call men "mister" out of respect. My other word for people who don't merit respect is "asshole". I believe this to be the actual root of the issue. You have decided some people aren't worthy of your respect (I presume because you feel they are your adversaries in a political struggle). Anything they ask of you from that point, you take issue with and blow out of proportion. They aren't people to you, they're "assholes." You don't have to like people to respect them. You don't have to agree with them either. > I don't have to try to overcome my 50 years of habit in how English is spoken. Language changes. Culture changes. They don't change because people are "schizophrenic," they change because they're part of an ongoing conversation. You don't have to like it. You don't have to change. But if you choose to resist it, you'll come off as out of touch and you'll upset or offend people. And consequently they may not want to work with you or spend time with you. You've every right to do that. But those are the consequences. And they always have been. You can accept those consequences or you can make room for the way the world has evolved, but those are your options; time waits for nobody. Take a step back and look at how patronizing your language is. Comparing people to children. Implying they're delusional. Insisting you've got it right and refusing to budge. Doesn't that sound like the way older people have always patronized younger people? Don't you remember being younger and people talking that way about your generation?

anthony_d 2y ago
> You don't have to like people to respect them. You don't have to agree with them either. This is where conversations about pronouns or gender always go off the tracks… If I don’t agree with someone’s concept of gender, you’re saying I don’t respect them. How do you respectfully disagree with and not use someone’s preferred pronouns? You can disagree, but not out loud? I think you need to double check your assumptions. This isn’t a younger generation vs older generation issue. It’s mostly US (w/ Canada) and mostly a side note in politics.
- frob 2y ago
  It's just all about respecting what people want to be called. What harm does that cause you, Andrew?
- 2y ago