5 ms·

Bitcoin fixes this.

by olalonde 2y ago

Bitcoin fixes this.

Pooge 2y ago
Any instrument on the market does.
- taylodl 2y ago
  Government: Pay us $50,000 Citizen: I don't have $50,000 Government: You have $50,000 worth of bonds and securities Citizen: That's property. I demand a jury trial by my peers. Government: <crickets>
- plsbenice34 2y ago
  I can't think of anything that comes close to being as hard to seize as cryptocurrency
  - vasco 2y ago
    Everything has the same difficulty of seizure when a few guys with hammers and pliers surround you.
    - ty6853 2y ago
      Something like Monero, they have no idea how much you have unless you flaunt it. Just pretend like you're in LATAM and have a decoy wallet you're ready to lose.
    - plsbenice34 2y ago
      I have an unknown number of monero wallets that have not been declared anywhere. If I give you just a few of them, it has the same outcome for the torture as giving you all of them, so it is rational in all ways for me to not give it all up
      - pavel_lishin 2y ago
        > If I give you just a few of them, it has the same outcome for the torture as giving you all of them Where's the incentive for me to stop hitting you with a hose? Maybe a few more wallets will shake loose. And if not, oh well.
      - vasco 2y ago
        The torturer can think the same way, why stop? I wonder how long you keep resisting after giving up 2 decoy wallets and they keep at it. They can keep at it even after you give all the real ones too just in case.
  - exabrial 2y ago
    Try taking my $5. It’s on my counter.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > can't think of anything that comes close to being as hard to seize as cryptocurrency Really? It's digital. It can be accessed anywhere. You just force the person to give it to you. Why do you think crypto executives are such popular K&R targets?
    - olalonde 2y ago
      Because crypto is hard to seize... Once the ransom is paid, good luck getting it back.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > crypto is hard to seize Crypto is constantly being seized. And unlike cash, you can't publicly taint every account that interacts with the dirty money.
        olalonde 2y ago
        "Tainting" is a made up thing, people use "tainted" coins all the time without any issue. Crypto is occasionally being seized, mostly from poorly informed criminals, but it still requires a lot more work than seizing a bank account.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > "Tainting" is a made up thing, people use "tainted" coins all the time without any issue People use dirty bills all the time with no issue, too. I need to look up who our background check provider is, but I've seen people flagged as a high risk (twice in client onboarding, once in a deal, once in an employment context) due to a known or probably-known wallet having a high frequency of high-risk transactions. That's, put simply, not visibility I have into anyone's bank account. In two of the cases we added safeguards (at client and counterparty's cost) and in two I declined to proceed.
        olalonde 2y ago
  - maxerickson 2y ago
    If was actually particularly used for things, stuff that couldn't be seized would be tainted.
9283409232 2y ago
Not if I can't buy food in Bitcoin.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  It is surprisingly easy to trade crypto for gift cards that work at online groceries, without ID too, so yes, you can, even in the US.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    Talk about a shit thing to deal with when I run out of eggs.
    - OutOfHere 2y ago
      It is initially inconvenient, but like anything else, once you get the hang of it, you can begin to feel relieved that you actually have custody over your money, that it won't be seized from you.
  - compootr 2y ago
    everything falls apart with no 'real' currency, or FIAT, since that gift card has no value if it's a useless currency
- ty6853 2y ago
  For the right premium someone will sell you food for coins. You may need to buy a months food at a time to make it practical though.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
philipov 2y ago
https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ted_dunning 2y ago
As mentioned in another thread, this isn't necessarily true, particularly if redeeming bitcoin for something else causes a taxable event which triggers long and short-term capital gains. This hinges on the government defining Bitcoin as "property" which is distinct from "money". They normally assert that only US currency is "money". As such, any property that changes value (i.e. Bitcoin) is subject to capital gains tax. So if spenders of Bitcoin don't mind filing a separate tax form for every Bitcoin transaction, then Bitcoin fixes this. Otherwise, not so much. Bitcoin does fix the problem in the sense it is obviously property. But that doesn't solve much.
- olalonde 2y ago
  You can keep a 5000$ account that you refill once in a while by selling Bitcoin. The seizable amount becomes 10x smaller.

Bitcoin fixes this.

Pooge 2y ago

Any instrument on the market does.

taylodl 2y ago
Government: Pay us $50,000 Citizen: I don't have $50,000 Government: You have $50,000 worth of bonds and securities Citizen: That's property. I demand a jury trial by my peers. Government: <crickets>
plsbenice34 2y ago
I can't think of anything that comes close to being as hard to seize as cryptocurrency
- vasco 2y ago
  Everything has the same difficulty of seizure when a few guys with hammers and pliers surround you.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    Something like Monero, they have no idea how much you have unless you flaunt it. Just pretend like you're in LATAM and have a decoy wallet you're ready to lose.
  - plsbenice34 2y ago
    I have an unknown number of monero wallets that have not been declared anywhere. If I give you just a few of them, it has the same outcome for the torture as giving you all of them, so it is rational in all ways for me to not give it all up
    - pavel_lishin 2y ago
      > If I give you just a few of them, it has the same outcome for the torture as giving you all of them Where's the incentive for me to stop hitting you with a hose? Maybe a few more wallets will shake loose. And if not, oh well.
    - vasco 2y ago
      The torturer can think the same way, why stop? I wonder how long you keep resisting after giving up 2 decoy wallets and they keep at it. They can keep at it even after you give all the real ones too just in case.
- exabrial 2y ago
  Try taking my $5. It’s on my counter.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > can't think of anything that comes close to being as hard to seize as cryptocurrency Really? It's digital. It can be accessed anywhere. You just force the person to give it to you. Why do you think crypto executives are such popular K&R targets?
  - olalonde 2y ago
    Because crypto is hard to seize... Once the ransom is paid, good luck getting it back.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > crypto is hard to seize Crypto is constantly being seized. And unlike cash, you can't publicly taint every account that interacts with the dirty money.
      - olalonde 2y ago
        "Tainting" is a made up thing, people use "tainted" coins all the time without any issue. Crypto is occasionally being seized, mostly from poorly informed criminals, but it still requires a lot more work than seizing a bank account.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > "Tainting" is a made up thing, people use "tainted" coins all the time without any issue People use dirty bills all the time with no issue, too. I need to look up who our background check provider is, but I've seen people flagged as a high risk (twice in client onboarding, once in a deal, once in an employment context) due to a known or probably-known wallet having a high frequency of high-risk transactions. That's, put simply, not visibility I have into anyone's bank account. In two of the cases we added safeguards (at client and counterparty's cost) and in two I declined to proceed.
        olalonde 2y ago
- maxerickson 2y ago
  If was actually particularly used for things, stuff that couldn't be seized would be tainted.

9283409232 2y ago

Not if I can't buy food in Bitcoin.

OutOfHere 2y ago
It is surprisingly easy to trade crypto for gift cards that work at online groceries, without ID too, so yes, you can, even in the US.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- olyjohn 2y ago
  Talk about a shit thing to deal with when I run out of eggs.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    It is initially inconvenient, but like anything else, once you get the hang of it, you can begin to feel relieved that you actually have custody over your money, that it won't be seized from you.
- compootr 2y ago
  everything falls apart with no 'real' currency, or FIAT, since that gift card has no value if it's a useless currency
ty6853 2y ago
For the right premium someone will sell you food for coins. You may need to buy a months food at a time to make it practical though.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

philipov 2y ago

https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ted_dunning 2y ago

As mentioned in another thread, this isn't necessarily true, particularly if redeeming bitcoin for something else causes a taxable event which triggers long and short-term capital gains. This hinges on the government defining Bitcoin as "property" which is distinct from "money". They normally assert that only US currency is "money". As such, any property that changes value (i.e. Bitcoin) is subject to capital gains tax. So if spenders of Bitcoin don't mind filing a separate tax form for every Bitcoin transaction, then Bitcoin fixes this. Otherwise, not so much. Bitcoin does fix the problem in the sense it is obviously property. But that doesn't solve much.

olalonde 2y ago
You can keep a 5000$ account that you refill once in a while by selling Bitcoin. The seizable amount becomes 10x smaller.