4 ms·

There's the idealized America that we learn about in school, then there's America as it is. I guess ideals are a nice tool to compare something against to meas

by y33t 2y ago

There's the idealized America that we learn about in school, then there's America as it is. I guess ideals are a nice tool to compare something against to measure something's relative value. But they can also be used as a whitewash. Maybe the difference is how engaged an informed citizen body is with the government.

sixothree 2y ago
For the past 40 years one party in particular has lectured me about how they are the ones who instill the values of this idealized America you mention, how they are the ones who are the real patriots, and how they only can interpret what the founding fathers intended.
- bevesce- 2y ago
  From this post I'm not sure which of two parties is the one.
  - SR2Z 2y ago
    Are you joking? Democrats cannot resist pointing out that the founding fathers owned slaves, while the GOP basically treats them as saints.
munificent 2y ago
> There's the idealized America that we learn about in school, then there's America as it is. I strongly dislike this take. There is the idealized America that we wish America was, and there is an entire continuum from that point all the way to "no functioning state at all Mad Max hellhole". Treating all points that are not exactly at "idealized America" as equivalent discards a massive amount of nuance and effectively makes it impossible to advocate for incremental change. Yes, America is not perfect. But that doesn't mean that the America we had before Trump's massive corruption is identical to the American we have today.
- y33t 2y ago
  > Treating all points that are not exactly at "idealized America" as equivalent > that doesn't mean that the America we had before Trump's massive corruption is identical to the American we have today. I don't know how you got that out of my post.
- briandear 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - rfrey 2y ago
    Person 1: corruption that has either been proven in court; shrugged at by that person, or actively bragged about by that person Person 2: corruption that has been claimed by Person 1 or his proxies but not proven or substantiated in any other way. Are you paying attention?
- miningape 2y ago
  To be fair, taking bribes for your presidential library has been apart of American politics for a while. Also, sorry, I forgot we don't call it "bribing" anymore, it's called "lobbying" now ;) https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/03/shining-a-light-on-presidential-libraries-the-unrenowned-pay-to-play-scandal/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/03/shining-a-light-on-... (also I absolutely love your interpreter book - you single-handedly got me a perfect score for my bachelor thesis, sorry had to sneak this in)
  - 1oooqooq 2y ago
    you only need the "lobby" cover for levels under president. you can note how the meta donation doesn't have to be called as such.
- leptons 2y ago
  > "no functioning state at all Mad Max hellhole" This is exactly the track we're on, if you hadn't noticed the last week. The train has left the station. We likely are arriving a lot sooner than you may think.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
WesleyJohnson 2y ago
Ideal or not, it's propaganda. We're lead to believe only other countries use propaganda to control their citizens, shield them from truths, and paint foreign countries as "lesser than" or, worse "the enemy". All the while, we're doing the same thing. Maybe I've had the wool pulled over my eyes my first 4 1/2 decades, but it seems pretty clear now.
- iknowSFR 2y ago
  They don’t pay teachers enough to challenge the norm and deal with the fallout. Whether that’s by design or not… probably? The idea here being to incentivize teachers to do the bare minimum.
  - kernal 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - dartos 2y ago
      Because…?
  - lazide 2y ago
    Teachers are expected to teach the norm. Or at least somewhat within a range of it. It’s literally their job.
    - andriesm 2y ago
      Exactly government controlled and mandated education = you will be "appropriately" indoctrinated with framing assumptions while being educated. State schooling = statist schooling.
acomjean 2y ago
If you give after the fact, its a "Gratuity" and allowed. https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-limits-scope-of-anti-bribery-law/ https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-limits-scop...
nelox 2y ago
It’s not called the American Dream for nothing

by y33t 2y ago

sixothree 2y ago

For the past 40 years one party in particular has lectured me about how they are the ones who instill the values of this idealized America you mention, how they are the ones who are the real patriots, and how they only can interpret what the founding fathers intended.

bevesce- 2y ago
From this post I'm not sure which of two parties is the one.
- SR2Z 2y ago
  Are you joking? Democrats cannot resist pointing out that the founding fathers owned slaves, while the GOP basically treats them as saints.

munificent 2y ago

> There's the idealized America that we learn about in school, then there's America as it is. I strongly dislike this take. There is the idealized America that we wish America was, and there is an entire continuum from that point all the way to "no functioning state at all Mad Max hellhole". Treating all points that are not exactly at "idealized America" as equivalent discards a massive amount of nuance and effectively makes it impossible to advocate for incremental change. Yes, America is not perfect. But that doesn't mean that the America we had before Trump's massive corruption is identical to the American we have today.

y33t 2y ago
> Treating all points that are not exactly at "idealized America" as equivalent > that doesn't mean that the America we had before Trump's massive corruption is identical to the American we have today. I don't know how you got that out of my post.
briandear 2y ago
[flagged]
- rfrey 2y ago
  Person 1: corruption that has either been proven in court; shrugged at by that person, or actively bragged about by that person Person 2: corruption that has been claimed by Person 1 or his proxies but not proven or substantiated in any other way. Are you paying attention?
miningape 2y ago
To be fair, taking bribes for your presidential library has been apart of American politics for a while. Also, sorry, I forgot we don't call it "bribing" anymore, it's called "lobbying" now ;) https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/03/shining-a-light-on-presidential-libraries-the-unrenowned-pay-to-play-scandal/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/03/shining-a-light-on-... (also I absolutely love your interpreter book - you single-handedly got me a perfect score for my bachelor thesis, sorry had to sneak this in)
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  you only need the "lobby" cover for levels under president. you can note how the meta donation doesn't have to be called as such.
leptons 2y ago
> "no functioning state at all Mad Max hellhole" This is exactly the track we're on, if you hadn't noticed the last week. The train has left the station. We likely are arriving a lot sooner than you may think.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

WesleyJohnson 2y ago

Ideal or not, it's propaganda. We're lead to believe only other countries use propaganda to control their citizens, shield them from truths, and paint foreign countries as "lesser than" or, worse "the enemy". All the while, we're doing the same thing. Maybe I've had the wool pulled over my eyes my first 4 1/2 decades, but it seems pretty clear now.

iknowSFR 2y ago
They don’t pay teachers enough to challenge the norm and deal with the fallout. Whether that’s by design or not… probably? The idea here being to incentivize teachers to do the bare minimum.
- kernal 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - dartos 2y ago
    Because…?
- lazide 2y ago
  Teachers are expected to teach the norm. Or at least somewhat within a range of it. It’s literally their job.
  - andriesm 2y ago
    Exactly government controlled and mandated education = you will be "appropriately" indoctrinated with framing assumptions while being educated. State schooling = statist schooling.

acomjean 2y ago

If you give after the fact, its a "Gratuity" and allowed. https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-limits-scope-of-anti-bribery-law/ https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-limits-scop...

nelox 2y ago

It’s not called the American Dream for nothing