3 ms·

> Energy efficiency causes energy consumption to increase. That's basic economics [0]. Switching from incandescents to LEDs reduces electricity consumption by

by quink 2y ago

> Energy efficiency causes energy consumption to increase. That's basic economics [0]. Switching from incandescents to LEDs reduces electricity consumption by up to 90% to produce the same amount of light. I mean sure, someone will have twice as much light in their life after that switch. Heck, show me the person who now have five times more light bulbs in their ceiling. But show me the person who now has ten bulbs in the ceiling to make your statement marginally true, or twenty times, increasing annually, to make it representative of your point. No, really. Show me the person who has twenty times the holes in the ceiling than originally designed, twenty times the light, they must have gone permanently blind. It’d be fascinating to meet that person. Given the confidence with which you stated that it’s basic economics, is it you?

roenxi 2y ago
Modern houses do have a lot more lightbulbs if you feel like keeping count, I saw a kitchen with something like 6 or 7 of them recently. Although I'd assume the big uptick would be industrial consumers. Particularly 24/7 operations with lots of opportunities for lighting. Or people would start installing better streetlamps as the ability to do so improved. But the point I'd like to make is that your lack of imagination isn't going to overcome the laws of economics no matter how much you can't imagine change. "I can't imagine basic results playing out" isn't an argument for why they won't, it just means you don't understand the situation well. Jevons' paradox flows pretty directly from the laws of supply and demand and the observation that energy demand is highly elastic because it does anything and everything. And an important concept that you may be unaware of is 'fungibility' - that means some goods (energy being a prime example) can be repurposed across a wide range of activities and not just lighting. So if people don't need to put as much energy into lighting then they take the energy they would have used and put it to something else, like more comforts in their life. It is a very reliable trend.
- quink 2y ago
  Got it. It’s a basic law of economics that all kitchens must be lit like the surface of the sun by the end of the century otherwise we’ll all be in economic doom. Also pretty sure that Jevons’ paradox might actually not apply indefinitely for a finite resource with a real price attached to it, but how does me, the ignoramus, dare to stand in the way of this ever more exponentially enlightened (literally) economic powerhouse.
- relaxing 2y ago
  This is the weirdest bit I’ve seen someone stick to on this site for some time, and that’s saying something. Here’s an important concept you seem to be unaware of: elasticity of demand.

by quink 2y ago

roenxi 2y ago

Modern houses do have a lot more lightbulbs if you feel like keeping count, I saw a kitchen with something like 6 or 7 of them recently. Although I'd assume the big uptick would be industrial consumers. Particularly 24/7 operations with lots of opportunities for lighting. Or people would start installing better streetlamps as the ability to do so improved. But the point I'd like to make is that your lack of imagination isn't going to overcome the laws of economics no matter how much you can't imagine change. "I can't imagine basic results playing out" isn't an argument for why they won't, it just means you don't understand the situation well. Jevons' paradox flows pretty directly from the laws of supply and demand and the observation that energy demand is highly elastic because it does anything and everything. And an important concept that you may be unaware of is 'fungibility' - that means some goods (energy being a prime example) can be repurposed across a wide range of activities and not just lighting. So if people don't need to put as much energy into lighting then they take the energy they would have used and put it to something else, like more comforts in their life. It is a very reliable trend.

quink 2y ago
Got it. It’s a basic law of economics that all kitchens must be lit like the surface of the sun by the end of the century otherwise we’ll all be in economic doom. Also pretty sure that Jevons’ paradox might actually not apply indefinitely for a finite resource with a real price attached to it, but how does me, the ignoramus, dare to stand in the way of this ever more exponentially enlightened (literally) economic powerhouse.
relaxing 2y ago
This is the weirdest bit I’ve seen someone stick to on this site for some time, and that’s saying something. Here’s an important concept you seem to be unaware of: elasticity of demand.