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Preempting the "why not hydrogen" comments: Always a good time to refer to "The Hydrogen Ladder" (version 5.0 nowadays): https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrog

by Rygian 2y ago

Preempting the "why not hydrogen" comments: Always a good time to refer to "The Hydrogen Ladder" (version 5.0 nowadays): https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-michael-liebreich https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-mi... In this case, the alternative of using hydrogen for the "Local Ferries" use case would be in class F (almost uncompetitive) and the recommended alternative is indeed electric powertrains.

gwbas1c 2y ago
I came across an article about a hydrogen ferry a month or so ago. I think the ferry was somewhere in northwestern Europe, perhaps on the Nordic peninsula. One major problem is that, due to physics, hydrogen containers leak... a lot. The hydrogen losses from transporting and storing the hydrogen for the ferry were phenomenal. I guess it's impossible to truly seal hydrogen via a valve because it's molecule is so tiny that it can wiggle through the best valves we can make.
- walrus01 2y ago
  Leakage and hydrogen tank pressures, filling systems are why I think consumers should never own hydrogen fuel cell cars. Ever seen how many people manage to fill their gas car with diesel or vice versa? How careless people can be filling gasoline into approved 5 gallon cans? The number of people driving off from gas stations with the nozzle and hose still stuck in their cars? And now people want to give the average driver access to hydrogen refueling apparatus? Shocking.
  - gwbas1c 2y ago
    > The number of people driving off from gas stations with the nozzle and hose still stuck in their cars? I've never seen that happen. But, I can't seem to fill a gas can without a drip getting on the side.
    - walrus01 2y ago
      It happens often enough that gas pump hoses are made with a special breakaway mechanism...
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Even if you've never personally seen such a situation, a trip down your chosen video platform (YouTube/Facebook/Instagram/TikTok) should convince you it happens way too often.
- 7e 2y ago
  Due to physics, ICE vehicles are also hugely inefficient. That doesn't matter. All that matters is the cost of the fuel stock.
  - gwbas1c 2y ago
    Engineering Explained walked through all the math: https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=xZtf_ePfreOpkgr1 https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=xZtf_ePfreOpkgr1
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
7e 2y ago
SF has made it work in a six month trial in 2024: https://www.power-technology.com/news/san-francisco-welcomes-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-commercial-ferry/ https://www.power-technology.com/news/san-francisco-welcomes... It all depends on the cost of the hydrogen, and green hydrogen costs will drop as spilled wind and solar proliferate.
- Rygian 2y ago
  due to round-trip efficiency, the running cost of green hydrogen will always be twice as expensive as just using the electricity directly for the end purpose. And where batteries are feasible, they are cheaper amortized than the equivalent hydrogen infrastructure.

by Rygian 2y ago

gwbas1c 2y ago

I came across an article about a hydrogen ferry a month or so ago. I think the ferry was somewhere in northwestern Europe, perhaps on the Nordic peninsula. One major problem is that, due to physics, hydrogen containers leak... a lot. The hydrogen losses from transporting and storing the hydrogen for the ferry were phenomenal. I guess it's impossible to truly seal hydrogen via a valve because it's molecule is so tiny that it can wiggle through the best valves we can make.

walrus01 2y ago
Leakage and hydrogen tank pressures, filling systems are why I think consumers should never own hydrogen fuel cell cars. Ever seen how many people manage to fill their gas car with diesel or vice versa? How careless people can be filling gasoline into approved 5 gallon cans? The number of people driving off from gas stations with the nozzle and hose still stuck in their cars? And now people want to give the average driver access to hydrogen refueling apparatus? Shocking.
- gwbas1c 2y ago
  > The number of people driving off from gas stations with the nozzle and hose still stuck in their cars? I've never seen that happen. But, I can't seem to fill a gas can without a drip getting on the side.
  - walrus01 2y ago
    It happens often enough that gas pump hoses are made with a special breakaway mechanism...
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Even if you've never personally seen such a situation, a trip down your chosen video platform (YouTube/Facebook/Instagram/TikTok) should convince you it happens way too often.
7e 2y ago
Due to physics, ICE vehicles are also hugely inefficient. That doesn't matter. All that matters is the cost of the fuel stock.
- gwbas1c 2y ago
  Engineering Explained walked through all the math: https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=xZtf_ePfreOpkgr1 https://youtu.be/vJjKwSF9gT8?si=xZtf_ePfreOpkgr1

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

7e 2y ago

SF has made it work in a six month trial in 2024: https://www.power-technology.com/news/san-francisco-welcomes-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-commercial-ferry/ https://www.power-technology.com/news/san-francisco-welcomes... It all depends on the cost of the hydrogen, and green hydrogen costs will drop as spilled wind and solar proliferate.

Rygian 2y ago
due to round-trip efficiency, the running cost of green hydrogen will always be twice as expensive as just using the electricity directly for the end purpose. And where batteries are feasible, they are cheaper amortized than the equivalent hydrogen infrastructure.