4 ms·

It may be easy to get mad as the Republicans for this, but there’s a clear bipartisan precedent here. Remember DACA? Might have been a good policy if Congress h

It may be easy to get mad as the Republicans for this, but there’s a clear bipartisan precedent here. Remember DACA? Might have been a good policy if Congress had enacted it. Bad precedent as an executive action though, because it establishes that the president’s ability to make immigration policy is effectively unlimited. Today’s ICE raids are made possible by DACA.

panic 2y ago
No, ICE was established in 2003, post-9/11, way before DACA in 2012, and it was always intended to be used for this purpose.
- bumby 2y ago
  I think the OP has a different point. I don’t think they were claiming ICE was created by DACA, but rather their actions were enabled by it.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
fzeroracer 2y ago
I'm not particularly going to disagree that the Dems are useless or not part of the problem, because they absolutely are. A lot of the issues we have is because of continued attempts at bipartisanship watering down bills into oblivion, means-testing and obsession with locking out people further left. But ultimately a lot of our core foundational agencies have been functioning well regardless. And it's only the right that's intent on tearing them down no matter the consequences. So while the Dems enable this, the Republicans enact it.
- ahartmetz 2y ago
  What the Democratic party did to Sanders was a disgrace. The people wanted him, the powers-that-be (donors?) didn't. He'd probably have won against Trump, according to surveys. The Republicans did go with the (sadly) popular guy. I guess he was palatable (by the definition that matters) because there was no talk of increasing taxes on high incomes.
  - pseudalopex 2y ago
    > What the Democratic party did to Sanders was a disgrace. The people wanted him, the powers-that-be (donors?) didn't. More people who voted wanted Clinton and Biden. Sanders himself admitted not enough young people voted and his platform was less popular in more conservative states.
    - ahartmetz 2y ago
      AFAIU, there were party shenanigans to decrease his chances in the primary?
      - lostdog 2y ago
        Very very minor party shenanigans. Serious enough that they should be called out and punished, but not serious enough to effect the voting. "She was given the questions tonthe debate," is the most serious accusation. But anyone with a dozen brain cells knows whats going to be asked during the debates.
        ahartmetz 2y ago
        There was some more stuff that I found upon researching it, but not nearly as serious as I (mis?)remembered, yeah.
vharuck 2y ago
I wouldn't count the Executive Orders related to ICE in the "nepotism and favoritism" group fzeroracer referred to. Those might be more of the "smokescreen." The orders for mass layoffs or encouraging quitting of civil service seen more like the ulterior motive. Allowing the president to remove "disloyal" civil servants would take us back to the spoils system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system Then, either they use existing executive power to ensure Republicans have an insurmountable advantage in national elections, or they haven't thought things through and we'll see even larger shifts in federal regulations after each administration change.
toast0 2y ago
DACA certainly pushed the limits of executive authority, but... Immigration raids are pretty clearly an executive function, and they happened prior to DACA and prior to ICE. Executive prioritization of federal law enforcement is normal and expected.

panic 2y ago

No, ICE was established in 2003, post-9/11, way before DACA in 2012, and it was always intended to be used for this purpose.

bumby 2y ago
I think the OP has a different point. I don’t think they were claiming ICE was created by DACA, but rather their actions were enabled by it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

fzeroracer 2y ago

I'm not particularly going to disagree that the Dems are useless or not part of the problem, because they absolutely are. A lot of the issues we have is because of continued attempts at bipartisanship watering down bills into oblivion, means-testing and obsession with locking out people further left. But ultimately a lot of our core foundational agencies have been functioning well regardless. And it's only the right that's intent on tearing them down no matter the consequences. So while the Dems enable this, the Republicans enact it.

ahartmetz 2y ago
What the Democratic party did to Sanders was a disgrace. The people wanted him, the powers-that-be (donors?) didn't. He'd probably have won against Trump, according to surveys. The Republicans did go with the (sadly) popular guy. I guess he was palatable (by the definition that matters) because there was no talk of increasing taxes on high incomes.
- pseudalopex 2y ago
  > What the Democratic party did to Sanders was a disgrace. The people wanted him, the powers-that-be (donors?) didn't. More people who voted wanted Clinton and Biden. Sanders himself admitted not enough young people voted and his platform was less popular in more conservative states.
  - ahartmetz 2y ago
    AFAIU, there were party shenanigans to decrease his chances in the primary?
    - lostdog 2y ago
      Very very minor party shenanigans. Serious enough that they should be called out and punished, but not serious enough to effect the voting. "She was given the questions tonthe debate," is the most serious accusation. But anyone with a dozen brain cells knows whats going to be asked during the debates.
      - ahartmetz 2y ago
        There was some more stuff that I found upon researching it, but not nearly as serious as I (mis?)remembered, yeah.

vharuck 2y ago

I wouldn't count the Executive Orders related to ICE in the "nepotism and favoritism" group fzeroracer referred to. Those might be more of the "smokescreen." The orders for mass layoffs or encouraging quitting of civil service seen more like the ulterior motive. Allowing the president to remove "disloyal" civil servants would take us back to the spoils system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system Then, either they use existing executive power to ensure Republicans have an insurmountable advantage in national elections, or they haven't thought things through and we'll see even larger shifts in federal regulations after each administration change.

toast0 2y ago

DACA certainly pushed the limits of executive authority, but... Immigration raids are pretty clearly an executive function, and they happened prior to DACA and prior to ICE. Executive prioritization of federal law enforcement is normal and expected.