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r/Duolingo Will No Longer Be Duolingo’s Unpaid Customer Support or Data Mine

61 points by Lammy 2y ago

bediger4000 2y ago
I do not understand why corporations don't at least read subreddits. HR departments could learn a lot from the "career" subreddits.
- skeaker 2y ago
  Bottom line is that management just doesn't want to hear anything negative, ever. They're not going to read it and if their lackeys read it the lackeys know better than to tell them about it and risk their own livelihoods. Better for the shareholders if we just pretend everything is great all the time no matter what.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
satvikpendem 2y ago
I'm not sure why a subreddit was acting as a company's customer support in the first place.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Reddit pitched companies that it was a place to meet the customer where they’re at. Fidelity customer support sits in /r/fidelityinvestments, for example, and this is mentioned both on their website and in the mobile apps.
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    That's all well and good but this doesn't seem equivalent to this Duolingo subreddit where mods and other users were providing support, and I am not sure why they spent so much time acting as unpaid customer support, as they mentioned. It seems like mods self-flagellate on reddit and eventually burn out.
    - mingus88 2y ago
      I’ve answered questions on the internet for decades. I enjoy helping people, especially when it’s about a hobby we share. I would feel the same way if I came to realize that my helpful nature was being abused by a bad acting corporation, and I would refuse to give any more help until I felt it was more equitable. I’m not sure why Duolingo didn’t already have control over their subreddit. This is a bad look for them, and I just signed up for a family plan. Will I get support?
      - satvikpendem 2y ago
        > I’m not sure why Duolingo didn’t already have control over their subreddit. This is a bad look for them, and I just signed up for a family plan. Will I get support? Generally Reddit doesn't like companies owning the subreddit as it's supposed to be more of a community platform.
- washadjeffmad 2y ago
  Companies like like Google love "Reddit Requests" and pushing support to social media because it lets them skirt fixing their non-existent yet legally mandated customer support, helps them catch and avoid PR threads (before problems go "viral"), they come off looking like benevolent angels for providing selective public attention to solve one person's issue while not having to address systemic problems, and, of course, free labor. After the Pixel launch, Google had this poor guy acting like a customer experience manager for the sub, escalating requests to Pixel team staff, acting as a direct liaison between Support and Engineering, and talking to angry Redditors all day, totally unpaid. When I point blank asked him whether and how this multi-trillion dollar company was compensating him for his very real labor, he had a "but they're my friends" moment before finally realizing they were taking advantage of him. They got a good year out of him, at least. I suggested he sue. A decade on, Reddit are scumbags for not addressing this at the business level, and any company using Reddit Requests is cheating customers out of an official, functional Customer Support experience.
  - gaadd33 2y ago
    What customer support is legally required? Just curious since I've had better experience with Google/etc related support than I have with things like most consumer electronics or appliance manufacturers.
    - washadjeffmad 2y ago
      Check your state's consumer rights laws. While there's a general requirement for Customer Support, there aren't universal tests or criteria for effectiveness. There are also different requirements for different industries.
polka_haunts_us 2y ago
I guess it's been over a year since the reddit blackouts, we were due for more ludicrous drama and laughably inflated moderator egos. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar posts in other subreddits, at least until Reddit swoops in at someone's behest and threatens to take their toys away. Duolingo only has themselves to blame though, I'm struggling to name another non-social media app who has cultivated a fanbase with such a weird parasocial relationship with it.
troad 2y ago
Duolingo is a gambling company masquerading as a learning resource. (Buy gems! Buy lingots! Increase your chance of loot drops!) Their entire business model is preying on addictive dark patterns. (Loot drop animations - so much colour and motion - so exciting! Don't let that streak lapse - buy a streak freeze now! Oh no, the owl is sad you haven't watched enough ads! You don't want to make the owl sad, do you? Duolingo for Schools available now!) It's been apparent for a long, long time that pedagogical considerations have no sway in the direction of Duolingo. I'm not surprised to hear that they're planning to outsource customer support to AI. If anything, I'm amazed they haven't outsourced all their language courses to AI yet. Those are merely the colourful backdrop to the slot machine business that they're actually in. (Come to think of it, how do we know they haven't?) Kudos to the mods. I have no idea why a bunch of language enthusiasts should be expected to work as unpaid support staff for a ghoulish casino app.
- jameslk 2y ago
  I’ve been regularly using Duolingo to learn Portuguese for the past almost year (according to my streak). All the “dark patterns” you describe have helped me stay on track. I actually appreciate the addictive nature of the app pushing me to use it every day since it’s helped me learn a lot of words so I can better communicate with a friend in Brazil. I haven’t paid a dime for any of it (but I’ve watched a lifetime of ads) Fixing customer support seems like something they should do but I sincerely hope they don’t change anything else you complained about. Spanish or vanish, meu amigo
  - troad 2y ago
    You paid a great opportunity cost. You could have been using something good for a year, rather than something designed to prey on your mind. Every time you made a mistake, you lost a heart. Every time you lost your hearts, you were forced to watch an ad. That's great for Duolingo. You, on the other hand, spent a year being punished for making mistakes, which is the worst pathway one can possibly set up in a language learners' mind. I'm sure you can click on the words for 'Is the elephant under the chair?' very competently in the app now, but I'd be curious to see whether you've been Pavlovian-conditioned to fear making mistakes, and the impact that may have on your productive capacity in spontaneous language interaction contexts. But hey, your brain is fungible, and VCs gotta get paid. That $14 billion valuation comes from somewhere.

61 points by Lammy 2y ago

I do not understand why corporations don't at least read subreddits. HR departments could learn a lot from the "career" subreddits.

skeaker 2y ago
Bottom line is that management just doesn't want to hear anything negative, ever. They're not going to read it and if their lackeys read it the lackeys know better than to tell them about it and risk their own livelihoods. Better for the shareholders if we just pretend everything is great all the time no matter what.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

satvikpendem 2y ago

I'm not sure why a subreddit was acting as a company's customer support in the first place.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Reddit pitched companies that it was a place to meet the customer where they’re at. Fidelity customer support sits in /r/fidelityinvestments, for example, and this is mentioned both on their website and in the mobile apps.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  That's all well and good but this doesn't seem equivalent to this Duolingo subreddit where mods and other users were providing support, and I am not sure why they spent so much time acting as unpaid customer support, as they mentioned. It seems like mods self-flagellate on reddit and eventually burn out.
  - mingus88 2y ago
    I’ve answered questions on the internet for decades. I enjoy helping people, especially when it’s about a hobby we share. I would feel the same way if I came to realize that my helpful nature was being abused by a bad acting corporation, and I would refuse to give any more help until I felt it was more equitable. I’m not sure why Duolingo didn’t already have control over their subreddit. This is a bad look for them, and I just signed up for a family plan. Will I get support?
    - satvikpendem 2y ago
      > I’m not sure why Duolingo didn’t already have control over their subreddit. This is a bad look for them, and I just signed up for a family plan. Will I get support? Generally Reddit doesn't like companies owning the subreddit as it's supposed to be more of a community platform.
washadjeffmad 2y ago
Companies like like Google love "Reddit Requests" and pushing support to social media because it lets them skirt fixing their non-existent yet legally mandated customer support, helps them catch and avoid PR threads (before problems go "viral"), they come off looking like benevolent angels for providing selective public attention to solve one person's issue while not having to address systemic problems, and, of course, free labor. After the Pixel launch, Google had this poor guy acting like a customer experience manager for the sub, escalating requests to Pixel team staff, acting as a direct liaison between Support and Engineering, and talking to angry Redditors all day, totally unpaid. When I point blank asked him whether and how this multi-trillion dollar company was compensating him for his very real labor, he had a "but they're my friends" moment before finally realizing they were taking advantage of him. They got a good year out of him, at least. I suggested he sue. A decade on, Reddit are scumbags for not addressing this at the business level, and any company using Reddit Requests is cheating customers out of an official, functional Customer Support experience.
- gaadd33 2y ago
  What customer support is legally required? Just curious since I've had better experience with Google/etc related support than I have with things like most consumer electronics or appliance manufacturers.
  - washadjeffmad 2y ago
    Check your state's consumer rights laws. While there's a general requirement for Customer Support, there aren't universal tests or criteria for effectiveness. There are also different requirements for different industries.

polka_haunts_us 2y ago

I guess it's been over a year since the reddit blackouts, we were due for more ludicrous drama and laughably inflated moderator egos. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar posts in other subreddits, at least until Reddit swoops in at someone's behest and threatens to take their toys away. Duolingo only has themselves to blame though, I'm struggling to name another non-social media app who has cultivated a fanbase with such a weird parasocial relationship with it.

troad 2y ago

Duolingo is a gambling company masquerading as a learning resource. (Buy gems! Buy lingots! Increase your chance of loot drops!) Their entire business model is preying on addictive dark patterns. (Loot drop animations - so much colour and motion - so exciting! Don't let that streak lapse - buy a streak freeze now! Oh no, the owl is sad you haven't watched enough ads! You don't want to make the owl sad, do you? Duolingo for Schools available now!) It's been apparent for a long, long time that pedagogical considerations have no sway in the direction of Duolingo. I'm not surprised to hear that they're planning to outsource customer support to AI. If anything, I'm amazed they haven't outsourced all their language courses to AI yet. Those are merely the colourful backdrop to the slot machine business that they're actually in. (Come to think of it, how do we know they haven't?) Kudos to the mods. I have no idea why a bunch of language enthusiasts should be expected to work as unpaid support staff for a ghoulish casino app.

jameslk 2y ago
I’ve been regularly using Duolingo to learn Portuguese for the past almost year (according to my streak). All the “dark patterns” you describe have helped me stay on track. I actually appreciate the addictive nature of the app pushing me to use it every day since it’s helped me learn a lot of words so I can better communicate with a friend in Brazil. I haven’t paid a dime for any of it (but I’ve watched a lifetime of ads) Fixing customer support seems like something they should do but I sincerely hope they don’t change anything else you complained about. Spanish or vanish, meu amigo
- troad 2y ago
  You paid a great opportunity cost. You could have been using something good for a year, rather than something designed to prey on your mind. Every time you made a mistake, you lost a heart. Every time you lost your hearts, you were forced to watch an ad. That's great for Duolingo. You, on the other hand, spent a year being punished for making mistakes, which is the worst pathway one can possibly set up in a language learners' mind. I'm sure you can click on the words for 'Is the elephant under the chair?' very competently in the app now, but I'd be curious to see whether you've been Pavlovian-conditioned to fear making mistakes, and the impact that may have on your productive capacity in spontaneous language interaction contexts. But hey, your brain is fungible, and VCs gotta get paid. That $14 billion valuation comes from somewhere.