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I don't understand why if they used the words 'well-regulated militia' that so many pro-gun people argue that what _they actually meant_ was "any random person"

I don't understand why if they used the words 'well-regulated militia' that so many pro-gun people argue that what _they actually meant_ was "any random person". They had words for that and they chose the words 'well-regulated militia'.

potato3732842 2y ago
Regulated like pressure regulator, not regulated like the sort government bureaucracy HN idolizes. The latter meaning came later. Basically the same situation as when you read "gay" in a historical context.
- MattGrommes 2y ago
  Interesting. How does pressure regulator relate to humans? It seems like any random civilian being able to gun down dozens of people is pretty out of regulation.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- snakeyjake 2y ago
  >Regulated like pressure regulator I've read every single word that Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin ever wrote that survived to be collected into the various volumes of their collected writings. Regulated has always meant "controlled". The pressure regulator schtick sounds like some BS the NRA came up with after snorting some coke through the pile of rubles Putin gave them to poison the minds of Americans. Here's the full text of the Federalist Papers: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1404/1404-h/1404-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1404/1404-h/1404-h.htm "regulated" appears 26 times, often in a military context, and it always means what everyone thinks it means and is never used the way you propose. >Elections in Ireland, till of late, were regulated entirely by the discretion of the crown, and were seldom repeated, except on the accession of a new prince, or some other contingent event. Do you have any historical examples that support your usage of the word?
  - kazinator 2y ago
    Regulated means subject to regulations, which are a body of rules. Regulated technical parameters like pressure and voltage are not subject to regulations (unless we construe the simple feedback mechanism to be a couple of rules). It is blatant word semantic equivocation to conflate government regulation and pressure regulation. The word "controlled" doesn't help much; it can be similarly equivocated as a near synonym of "regulated". Regulated pressure is controlled. A regulated industry is controlled.
hindsightbias 2y ago
Well regulated as in "well equipped". A militia wouldn't be worth much with pikes and spoons. Particularly the glorious founders antipathy for a standing army. I don't like guns, but I think the masses right to own arms is more constitutional than the standing army.
pc86 2y ago
If you're interpreting Shakespeare you need to know not only the definitions of the words used but the context in which they were used. In the context of the mid/late 18th century, "regulated" typically meant functioning, working, fit-for-purpose, and at the risk of gross over-simplification, "good." A good militia is required for the security of the free (as opposed to authoritarian) state. The bill of rights is a list of things the federal government cannot do (and through case law, individual states). It is entirely restrictions on the government, not restrictions on citizens. It's a stretch to assume that the one word "regulated" in 2A actually mean restrictions on citizens when no other word in the first ten amendments restricts any citizens' rights.

potato3732842 2y ago

Regulated like pressure regulator, not regulated like the sort government bureaucracy HN idolizes. The latter meaning came later. Basically the same situation as when you read "gay" in a historical context.

MattGrommes 2y ago
Interesting. How does pressure regulator relate to humans? It seems like any random civilian being able to gun down dozens of people is pretty out of regulation.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
snakeyjake 2y ago
>Regulated like pressure regulator I've read every single word that Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin ever wrote that survived to be collected into the various volumes of their collected writings. Regulated has always meant "controlled". The pressure regulator schtick sounds like some BS the NRA came up with after snorting some coke through the pile of rubles Putin gave them to poison the minds of Americans. Here's the full text of the Federalist Papers: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1404/1404-h/1404-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1404/1404-h/1404-h.htm "regulated" appears 26 times, often in a military context, and it always means what everyone thinks it means and is never used the way you propose. >Elections in Ireland, till of late, were regulated entirely by the discretion of the crown, and were seldom repeated, except on the accession of a new prince, or some other contingent event. Do you have any historical examples that support your usage of the word?
- kazinator 2y ago
  Regulated means subject to regulations, which are a body of rules. Regulated technical parameters like pressure and voltage are not subject to regulations (unless we construe the simple feedback mechanism to be a couple of rules). It is blatant word semantic equivocation to conflate government regulation and pressure regulation. The word "controlled" doesn't help much; it can be similarly equivocated as a near synonym of "regulated". Regulated pressure is controlled. A regulated industry is controlled.

hindsightbias 2y ago

Well regulated as in "well equipped". A militia wouldn't be worth much with pikes and spoons. Particularly the glorious founders antipathy for a standing army. I don't like guns, but I think the masses right to own arms is more constitutional than the standing army.

pc86 2y ago

If you're interpreting Shakespeare you need to know not only the definitions of the words used but the context in which they were used. In the context of the mid/late 18th century, "regulated" typically meant functioning, working, fit-for-purpose, and at the risk of gross over-simplification, "good." A good militia is required for the security of the free (as opposed to authoritarian) state. The bill of rights is a list of things the federal government cannot do (and through case law, individual states). It is entirely restrictions on the government, not restrictions on citizens. It's a stretch to assume that the one word "regulated" in 2A actually mean restrictions on citizens when no other word in the first ten amendments restricts any citizens' rights.