5 ms·

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if most of your communication is over GMail/Google talk/Skype/Facetime/etc, there isn't a way the feds could wiretap that w

by andreyf 14y ago

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if most of your communication is over GMail/Google talk/Skype/Facetime/etc, there isn't a way the feds could wiretap that without the cooperation of Google/Microsoft/Apple, and AFAIK, they will require a warrant.

AJ007 14y ago
Does anyone believe that? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/google-nsa-secrecy-upheld/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/google-nsa-secrecy-...
- andreyf 14y ago
  The article you link talks about the collaboration in response to the "January 2010 cyberattack on Google that targeted the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists", not the massive surveillance the NSA allegedly performs without judicial oversight. I'm not surprised Google and the NSA collaborated in the former, but would be highly surprised if Google collaborated in the latter.
ary 14y ago
Or a National Security Letter.
dangrossman 14y ago
You're more or less wrong. 1) You do not need cooperation of those services if you sit on the network in between the end-user and the service. We know that the NSA does. 2) Securing cooperation does not require a warrant. Information can be requested by the FBI using a National Security Letter, without a warrant, simultaneously collecting information while gagging the service provider from informing the customer their information was collected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter 3) Any person's communications can be wiretapped by court order from the FISA court, separate from our normal court system. The FISA court judges see only evidence from the Department of Justice, and no information about their hearings is ever released or even recorded. Between 1979 and 2009, the FISA court has only declined to issue a court order for surveillance 11 times out of thousands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillan...
- andreyf 14y ago
  1) Facetime seems to be vulnerable to MITM wiretaps, but none of Google's services are transmitted in the clear anymore. Skype, afaik, is encrypted, as well. 2) Wikipedia says that "from 2003 to 2006 the bureau issued 192,499 national security letter requests". That's a long shot from the mass surveillance affecting "millions of Americans" (from this article), or the NSA having "a dossier on every citizen" (recently here, as well). 3) Good point.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - legutierr 14y ago
    Each national security letter can request the records of thousands or even millions of customers. 200,000 requests can certainly encompass all Americans.

by andreyf 14y ago

AJ007 14y ago

Does anyone believe that? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/google-nsa-secrecy-upheld/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/google-nsa-secrecy-...

andreyf 14y ago
The article you link talks about the collaboration in response to the "January 2010 cyberattack on Google that targeted the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists", not the massive surveillance the NSA allegedly performs without judicial oversight. I'm not surprised Google and the NSA collaborated in the former, but would be highly surprised if Google collaborated in the latter.

ary 14y ago

Or a National Security Letter.

dangrossman 14y ago

You're more or less wrong. 1) You do not need cooperation of those services if you sit on the network in between the end-user and the service. We know that the NSA does. 2) Securing cooperation does not require a warrant. Information can be requested by the FBI using a National Security Letter, without a warrant, simultaneously collecting information while gagging the service provider from informing the customer their information was collected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter 3) Any person's communications can be wiretapped by court order from the FISA court, separate from our normal court system. The FISA court judges see only evidence from the Department of Justice, and no information about their hearings is ever released or even recorded. Between 1979 and 2009, the FISA court has only declined to issue a court order for surveillance 11 times out of thousands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillan...

andreyf 14y ago
1) Facetime seems to be vulnerable to MITM wiretaps, but none of Google's services are transmitted in the clear anymore. Skype, afaik, is encrypted, as well. 2) Wikipedia says that "from 2003 to 2006 the bureau issued 192,499 national security letter requests". That's a long shot from the mass surveillance affecting "millions of Americans" (from this article), or the NSA having "a dossier on every citizen" (recently here, as well). 3) Good point.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- legutierr 14y ago
  Each national security letter can request the records of thousands or even millions of customers. 200,000 requests can certainly encompass all Americans.