9 ms·

> Instead, people are outsourcing their thinking to people like Joe Rogan and political YouTubers who exploit that cynicism for sponsorships, ad revenue and the

> Instead, people are outsourcing their thinking to people like Joe Rogan and political YouTubers who exploit that cynicism for sponsorships, ad revenue and their own product lines. Joe Rogan didn't lie us into a disastrous $6 trillion war that destabilized the middle east, created all sorts of knock-on consequences such as mass immigration into Europe from the Middle East that we're still living with two decades later. Joe Rogan didn't spend decades cheerleading immigration, outsourcing, and globalization policies most Americans never wanted (e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/podcasts/the-daily/election-immigration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/podcasts/the-daily/electi...). Joe Rogan is popular because people can tell that his gut instincts and general world view are consistent with their own, which makes them trust his takes. If your alternative to that is people who believe in their hearts that the U.S. should bring democracy and human rights to the world, or take on millions of immigrants, you'll never get peoples' trust, just as you probably wouldn't trust someone who thinks the rapture is coming soon.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
> didn't spend decades cheerleading immigration, outsourcing, and globalization policies most Americans never wanted (e.g. Most Americans do want their cheap toys and gas, and if you try to take them away, you’re not going to get voted out. Don’t listen to what people say, listen to what they do. If Americans didn’t want outsourcing and immigrants, they would have kept buying made in America goods and wouldn’t bitch about higher grocery / restaurant prices. However, Americans (like any other group) never wanted to move down the relative socioeconomic rankings, especially relative to other Americans. So when they do, they start wanting to blame others for their lack of competitiveness with the other few billion people in the world.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I genuinely think immigration is a law and order issue for many voters, and this is why you see a lot of support for controls from legal immigrants. People see right of refusal as a prerequisite to deciding where and how much immigration is desired. By analogy, I prioritize my right over who enters my home over other considerations. I would like to let contractors and cleaners in, but only on my terms.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    The post I replied to mentioned immigration, not illegal immigration.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Illegal immigration is a subset of immigration, and the focus of 90 plus percent of immigration policy and debate.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        I disagree. Illegal immigration and immigration are two separate topics. For example, one can be completely in favor of x amount of immigration, and be completely opposed to illegal immigration. In the context of rayiner's post, the historic political cry of "immigrants bad" was not usually about illegal immigrants, it was about legal immigrants willing to work for less than people who grew up in America. There are plenty of records of anti Irish and anti Italian immigrant sentiment (or any other wave of ethnic migration that causes competition for the existing working class). I would go so far as to say that current Republicans did skillfully weave the two political causes together in modern times to gain support of both those seeking law and order and those who dislike immigrants. I think maybe that local level Democrats tarnished the national branding of Democrats by glorifying acceptance of illegal immigration, which might be popular in a select few cities or states, but not on the national stage (referring to sanctuary city policies).
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Maybe we will have to agree to disagree. >For example, one can be completely in favor of x amount of immigration, and be completely opposed to illegal immigration. This proves nothing, illegal immigration can still be a subset. I like food but dont like apples. This doesnt prove an apple isnt food. Illegal immigration has been the focus of the immigration debate in the US for at least the last 50 years. Politicians dont debate the optimal number of green cards and H1B visas on podium.
watwut 2y ago
> Joe Rogan is popular because people can tell that his gut instincts and general world view are consistent with their own, which makes them trust his takes. So, because he lies in a way that makes them feel good, more angry at people they want to be angry.
- rayiner 2y ago
  Joe Rogan often is wrong—because he’s not that smart and is prone to conspiratorial thinking—but he’s not lying in service of an ideology.
  - ang_cire 2y ago
    The profit motive is an ideology.
  - AbstractH24 2y ago
    How can you prove or disprove this? I have no idea what his true thinking is. Or even what hes like away from the public eye.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      I'm pretty sure what we see is almost exactly what he's like in private. That kind of openness is hard to fake. Like Rayiner says, Rogan is not that smart, which combines with the confidence that comes from social and financial success and with the pressure to always be producing new content to cause him to make mistakes.
      - AbstractH24 2y ago
        So the proof is you’re “pretty sure”? I think that says it all

lotsofpulp 2y ago

> didn't spend decades cheerleading immigration, outsourcing, and globalization policies most Americans never wanted (e.g. Most Americans do want their cheap toys and gas, and if you try to take them away, you’re not going to get voted out. Don’t listen to what people say, listen to what they do. If Americans didn’t want outsourcing and immigrants, they would have kept buying made in America goods and wouldn’t bitch about higher grocery / restaurant prices. However, Americans (like any other group) never wanted to move down the relative socioeconomic rankings, especially relative to other Americans. So when they do, they start wanting to blame others for their lack of competitiveness with the other few billion people in the world.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
I genuinely think immigration is a law and order issue for many voters, and this is why you see a lot of support for controls from legal immigrants. People see right of refusal as a prerequisite to deciding where and how much immigration is desired. By analogy, I prioritize my right over who enters my home over other considerations. I would like to let contractors and cleaners in, but only on my terms.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  The post I replied to mentioned immigration, not illegal immigration.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Illegal immigration is a subset of immigration, and the focus of 90 plus percent of immigration policy and debate.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      I disagree. Illegal immigration and immigration are two separate topics. For example, one can be completely in favor of x amount of immigration, and be completely opposed to illegal immigration. In the context of rayiner's post, the historic political cry of "immigrants bad" was not usually about illegal immigrants, it was about legal immigrants willing to work for less than people who grew up in America. There are plenty of records of anti Irish and anti Italian immigrant sentiment (or any other wave of ethnic migration that causes competition for the existing working class). I would go so far as to say that current Republicans did skillfully weave the two political causes together in modern times to gain support of both those seeking law and order and those who dislike immigrants. I think maybe that local level Democrats tarnished the national branding of Democrats by glorifying acceptance of illegal immigration, which might be popular in a select few cities or states, but not on the national stage (referring to sanctuary city policies).
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Maybe we will have to agree to disagree. >For example, one can be completely in favor of x amount of immigration, and be completely opposed to illegal immigration. This proves nothing, illegal immigration can still be a subset. I like food but dont like apples. This doesnt prove an apple isnt food. Illegal immigration has been the focus of the immigration debate in the US for at least the last 50 years. Politicians dont debate the optimal number of green cards and H1B visas on podium.

watwut 2y ago

> Joe Rogan is popular because people can tell that his gut instincts and general world view are consistent with their own, which makes them trust his takes. So, because he lies in a way that makes them feel good, more angry at people they want to be angry.

rayiner 2y ago
Joe Rogan often is wrong—because he’s not that smart and is prone to conspiratorial thinking—but he’s not lying in service of an ideology.
- ang_cire 2y ago
  The profit motive is an ideology.
- AbstractH24 2y ago
  How can you prove or disprove this? I have no idea what his true thinking is. Or even what hes like away from the public eye.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure what we see is almost exactly what he's like in private. That kind of openness is hard to fake. Like Rayiner says, Rogan is not that smart, which combines with the confidence that comes from social and financial success and with the pressure to always be producing new content to cause him to make mistakes.
    - AbstractH24 2y ago
      So the proof is you’re “pretty sure”? I think that says it all