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> surveys indicated that an overwhelming majority of residents of Gaza supported Hamas Come on, nearly half of the inhabitants of Gaza are/were under 18. "Surv

> surveys indicated that an overwhelming majority of residents of Gaza supported Hamas Come on, nearly half of the inhabitants of Gaza are/were under 18. "Surveys" cannot make collective punishment legal, or annexation and ethnic cleansing for that matter. I'd say outright cutting off a whole population from food and going on TV to rant about how even the babies are terrorists isn't self-defense or security. If anything it's with a second set religious extremists that needs Hamas just like Hamas needs them. And in similar fashion, they use "Israel" as a shield for what they want, despite the Israelis who do respect human rights and international law, and get threatened for it. > You’re trying to separate Hamas from everyday people in Gaza They are separate. Each person is responsible for their actions. You can't speak of democracy and then casually ignore this.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I mentioned the surveys to indicate the complicity of the civilian population in Hamas’s actions. Often people claim the residents of Gaza didn’t vote for Hamas since the last election was in 2006. But the surveys reveal that most of them do support them and their religious terrorism. > "Surveys" cannot make collective punishment legal, or annexation and ethnic cleansing for that matter. What do you mean by annexation given that the entire region, including Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza were occupied by Jewish people long before Islamic Arabs were in the area? What do you mean by ethnic cleansing given that Gaza’s population has grown rapidly over time, given Israel announces targets ahead of time, and given that most of Gaza’s residents still live? Israel could level all of Gaza but they haven’t done anything even remotely close to that. Even the highest claimed counts of deaths in Gaza would amount to a couple percent of the population. That doesn’t seem very successful for an ethnic cleansing. > outright cutting off a whole population from food Food and aid which Hamas stole and sold for money to fund terrorism to kill Israelis, all aided by UNRWA. > Each person is responsible for their actions. Right and Hamas was voted in by everyday people and still has their broad support despite terrorism, murder, and rape.
- forgetfulness 2y ago
  Your impassionate argument in favor of an ethnic cleansing with bombs, starvation and lack of sanitation lies in stark contrast to this outrage about the Uyghurs' culture being erased with development and draconian imprisonment for suspected extremism, while at the same time, the West Bank was reduced to a patchwork of ghettos with draconian checkpoints where life is cheap if you are suspected to be an extremist. On the one hand, the slaughter of teenagers today in Gaza is justified because of the sins of their forefathers in electing Hamas, on the other, it's a genocidal atrocity that beards can only be so long in Xinjiang. The US is only more righteous for supporting America's Greatest Ally at the cost of the lives of it citizens, of those of Arab countries and, now with the TikTok ban, to its founding principles, in your world.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    I think you're raising an important point that I acknowledge, and I need to process that more. But my immediate thought is to note that the two situations are very different to me. Uyghurs are indigenous to Xinjiang (more than anyone else), and Islamic Arabs in Gaza or the West Bank are not indigenous to the region around Israel (Jewish people are, while Gaza's residents are outsiders since Islamic Arabs aren't indigenous to the region). The CCP/PRC is erasing Uyghur life in Xinjiang and forcing their population growth downward, while Islamic Arabs living in Israel have full protection of the law, can practice their religion and culture freely, gain wealth, have families without forced sterilization or abortion, and live without the threat of the state kidnapping their children. There's no evidence of Uyghurs broadly supporting terrorist attacks, while there's evidence of Gaza residents overwhelmingly supporting things like repeated rocket attacks. There's more but basically there are enough differences that the situations can be treated differently. But at the same time, I do hope for a different, peaceful solution. Surveys show Islamic Arabs are generally quite happy under Israel, but that won't work for those in West Bank or Gaza perhaps. You are right that teenagers who aren't supportive of terrorism don't deserve violence. A two state solution still seems like the best idea, but Hamas has still not shown support for it, even though it would mean peaceful coexistence and could lead to a rebuilding of Gaza and West Bank.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

I mentioned the surveys to indicate the complicity of the civilian population in Hamas’s actions. Often people claim the residents of Gaza didn’t vote for Hamas since the last election was in 2006. But the surveys reveal that most of them do support them and their religious terrorism. > "Surveys" cannot make collective punishment legal, or annexation and ethnic cleansing for that matter. What do you mean by annexation given that the entire region, including Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza were occupied by Jewish people long before Islamic Arabs were in the area? What do you mean by ethnic cleansing given that Gaza’s population has grown rapidly over time, given Israel announces targets ahead of time, and given that most of Gaza’s residents still live? Israel could level all of Gaza but they haven’t done anything even remotely close to that. Even the highest claimed counts of deaths in Gaza would amount to a couple percent of the population. That doesn’t seem very successful for an ethnic cleansing. > outright cutting off a whole population from food Food and aid which Hamas stole and sold for money to fund terrorism to kill Israelis, all aided by UNRWA. > Each person is responsible for their actions. Right and Hamas was voted in by everyday people and still has their broad support despite terrorism, murder, and rape.

forgetfulness 2y ago
Your impassionate argument in favor of an ethnic cleansing with bombs, starvation and lack of sanitation lies in stark contrast to this outrage about the Uyghurs' culture being erased with development and draconian imprisonment for suspected extremism, while at the same time, the West Bank was reduced to a patchwork of ghettos with draconian checkpoints where life is cheap if you are suspected to be an extremist. On the one hand, the slaughter of teenagers today in Gaza is justified because of the sins of their forefathers in electing Hamas, on the other, it's a genocidal atrocity that beards can only be so long in Xinjiang. The US is only more righteous for supporting America's Greatest Ally at the cost of the lives of it citizens, of those of Arab countries and, now with the TikTok ban, to its founding principles, in your world.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I think you're raising an important point that I acknowledge, and I need to process that more. But my immediate thought is to note that the two situations are very different to me. Uyghurs are indigenous to Xinjiang (more than anyone else), and Islamic Arabs in Gaza or the West Bank are not indigenous to the region around Israel (Jewish people are, while Gaza's residents are outsiders since Islamic Arabs aren't indigenous to the region). The CCP/PRC is erasing Uyghur life in Xinjiang and forcing their population growth downward, while Islamic Arabs living in Israel have full protection of the law, can practice their religion and culture freely, gain wealth, have families without forced sterilization or abortion, and live without the threat of the state kidnapping their children. There's no evidence of Uyghurs broadly supporting terrorist attacks, while there's evidence of Gaza residents overwhelmingly supporting things like repeated rocket attacks. There's more but basically there are enough differences that the situations can be treated differently. But at the same time, I do hope for a different, peaceful solution. Surveys show Islamic Arabs are generally quite happy under Israel, but that won't work for those in West Bank or Gaza perhaps. You are right that teenagers who aren't supportive of terrorism don't deserve violence. A two state solution still seems like the best idea, but Hamas has still not shown support for it, even though it would mean peaceful coexistence and could lead to a rebuilding of Gaza and West Bank.